The Certiorari Attorney is paid a percentage of the taxes saved, not on the change in the assessed value of your building. It is generally calculated over a period of years.

For example, our most recent offer from the NYC Tax Commission, based on the Certiorari's work, resulted in a tax savings of $375,000 over 5 years or about 75,000 per year. We paid the Certiorari $15,000 per year for that same 5 years, which represented 20% of our savings.

e-mail me (mblevine@ebmg.com) and I will respond to you with some good ideas. I have set up a bunch of them for a few buildings. I can show you examples and a how-to.

A basic website will not give you the features and security you want and need and yahoo! does not provide much. Try looking at one of the many hosts like siteground.com or dreamhost.com that can auto-install one of the many free CMS systems like Joomla that can give you security and forum software built in

I agree that Yahoo! and the like have limited use. If you really only want to do a few things, such a service may be fine.

My co-op uses 1and1.com. You can use html if you want, but we just stick with one of the templates so anyone can update it (by anyone, I mean any board member) regardless of technical savvy. We post lots of documents, too, so shareholders don't have to call the property manager and check their mailboxes. See here, under "Application forms"
http://www.thepinehurst.org/residents.htm

We aim to update it regularly, but sometimes it goes a few days without being changed. If you have any questions, contact me through the e -mail on the web site.

We've found Google Groups to be very helpful. Users can control the amount of email they receive, it is secure, and allows for the sharing of documents.

Be careful of any of the Groups that you allow shareholders to voice their opinions. It only takes one dissatisfied person to start an eruption within the group/coop and all hell breaks loose. Then you have to expend time and energy to put out the fire, which could take months and never really dies. Much better to do a website. GoDaddy is inexpensive and extremely secure and easy to navigate. Good luck. CS

http://www.habitatmag.com/co_op_condo_web_site_directory has a directory of co-ops and condos around the city that have their own website. You can e-mail them to ask how they went about it and what/who they use/

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

Hi David,

I think you would be interested in BuildingLink, which provides a LOT of features, including the ones you mentioned. BuildingLink is designed specifically for residential properties, and we are used by several hundred condos and coops in New York alone! It consists of a resident portal, plus a management portal for helping your management and staff make the best use of their time and yours. I'll be happy to provide you with more information, and with references for buildings near you that are using BuildingLink.

Best,

Zach

Are you aware that it is against the New York Fire Department rules to use a gas or charcoal grill on any roof in the five boroughs of New York. It may be popular but it is against the law, not to mention very dangerous.

it is important ti live a little..... peple all over NY do this without a problem.

Yes, it's important to "live a little" - but as a Board Member, your first responsibility is to the building's, and residents', safety. By allowing this activity, you put the safety of both in jeopardy - and the co-op could "enjoy" a hefty fine.

Isn't it enough fun for your residents to HAVE a roof deck?? In NYC, that's a huge perk.

Is there a back yard or a patio that could be used instead? The liability issues of an illegal roof grill seem staggering, and could put the board members at risk -- L&O insurance doesn't cover illegal activity.

On the other hand, were are the specific city regulations regarding roof grills? It may simply be that certain types of grills, such as propane or charcoal, are not allowed but electric grills are. Anyone know?

Here's what the FDNY has to say:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/safety/barbeque.shtml

"Never use a propane barbecue grill on a balcony, terrace or roof. It is both dangerous and illegal. ... Only use a charcoal barbecue grill on a balcony or terrace if there is a ten foot clearance from the building and there is an immediate source of water (garden hose or four (4) gallon pail of water). Otherwise, such barbequeings [sic] is dangerous and illegal."

So there's nothing there about a charcoal grill being illegal on a roof; the "otherwise" seems ambiguous since a terrace with a ten-foot clearance isn't any different than a rooftop space -- essentially a terrace -- with a ten-foot clearance. (How are terraces and balconies different, anyway?)

The FDNY, judging from "barbequeings," may not be the definitive source; they're lay people interpreting the statute(s), and incompletely, it appears. I'll nose around in the city code -- the specifics must be in there.

The full NYC Fire Code is available here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/firecode/july_2008/fire_code_local_law26_final_complete.pdf

For barbecues, see Section 307.5 on page 66. Charcoal BBQs are 307.5.1; propane (LPG or liquefied petroleum gas) are 307.5.3. In the propane section, I have no idea what a "Group R-3 occupancy" is, though it would appear to exclude multifamily apartment buildings.

Following up on my own post: NYC Fire Code Section 307.5.3 allows propane barbecues "on the premises of a Group R-3 occupancy." According to http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/downloads/pdf/cc_chapter3.pdf -- Section 310.1.3 on page 33 -- Group R-3 is defined as follows: "This occupancy shall include buildings or portions thereof containing no more than 2 dwelling units." This means that propane barbecues are not legal *anywhere* in multifamily apartment buildings.

What's the rule on rooftop fireplace? There is a new condo development (currently in construction) touting rooftop lounge with fireplace as an amenity.

Again, see page 66 of the NYC Fire Code:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/firecode/july_2008/fire_code_local_law26_final_complete.pdf

"307.2.1 Authorization. Open fires allowed pursuant to Section 307.1 may only be kindled, built, maintained or used with the prior written authorization of the agencies with regulatory jurisdiction, property owner and other required approvals, and only when such open fires are maintained in compliance with all conditions of such authorization or approval."

That's vague enough that I would assume a properly maintained rooftop fireplace would be legal, given the proper approvals.

Reminder: I'm not a lawyer! If there's a legal issue concerning barbecues or fireplaces in your building, please consult your attorney.

Just searched... the NYT has a May 21, 1997 article, "Sear Thy Steak, Not Thy Neighbor" which seems to indicate that rooftop grilling might be permissible, but only under certain conditions and specifications. The article also cautions greatly about propane's danger and explosive potential.

Good idea to check the fire codes for yourself... and to consult your co-op lawyer.

That's not true. check the FDNY website...charcoal and electric grills are approved for roof tops and terraces based on appropriate space allocation and source of water. Propane is not allowed on roof tops or terraces, only ground level.

First of all, the Prez cannot create policy by himself so any policy statements that Outgoing Prez made would require he made must have the backing of the board to be valid.

Assuming that New Prez is not going it alone in creating policy, the short answer to your question is yes, the board can do that and I see nothing unreasonable or illegal about their decision. The board has the right to manage the corporation as they see fit, regardless of the results of any petition, as long as they are within the law and the governing documents. They are also ultimately responsible for executing all contracts. Even though you say that you "already paid for them", charging back the shareholders provides a means for the corporation to recover some of the expenses of the new gates. That money is also going back into the corporation of which you are a shareholder. If the corporation needs money, the shareholders are the ones that must pay, one way or another.

Last word about the petition - a building cannot be run effectively if the shareholders think they should be involved in everyday decisions. Shareholders do not have the background information, the authority, or the fiduciary responsibilities. Be thankful that you have a board that is doing what it must to offset the corporation's expenses.

New York Roommate Law, you can't charge them. Don't you have a management company and don't you ask them their thoughts...You are paying them, ask them! If not them ask your lawyer!

they cannot do that. period. it is illegal. the roommate law allows you one person - in fact you can also have a domestic servants there so that makes tow people. tell them in writing not to bother you or you will consider it harassement.

Listen to Anonymous - he is correct and your two board members are inviting legal action. The Roommate Law, as well as ALL housing laws apply to co-ops.

If those two board members will not listen to you, your manager or your attorneys, I hope you have an election coming soon.

Agree completely with all negative responses. The Roommate Law holds precedence over your Board's desire for $$$.

Your Board Members have not done their due diligence -- shame on them! They need to familiarize themselves with NYC laws on habitation so this kind of time-wasting and mean-spirited nonsense never even comes up.

People who serve on the Board need to understand what Fiduciary Responsibility is right off the bat - no agendas, no personal biases, no special favors, no vendettas. Anyone who serves on a cooperative board needs rational, levelheaded and clear thought processes or they can put a co-op into real trouble, real fast.

If you have a Managing Agent, make sure they get asked for advice, and make sure they're not just pacifying the loudest members of the Board to keep the business. If needed, consult the Board Attorney, who'll put a stop to this kind of action once and for all.

Lots of good answers here, and I agree with all of them. Just two additional points:

(1) Your two Board members may claim that the Proprietary Lease says they have the right to interview roommates or impose surcharges, and they may even be correct. But this doesn't matter: the Roommate Law trumps the Lease. The Board has no right to screen roommates or to impose any charges for roommates, and they are inviting serious legal consequences by trying to do so.

(2) The Roommate Law does *not* cover the case where the shareholder moves out and lets one of his relatives or friends live in the apartment. That's a sublet, and the Board does indeed have control over that case.

CDT had good additions. I missed the first time that the Board is "interviewing" and "screening" roommates - totally against the Roommate Law and you'd better hope no one sues who wasn't accepted.

Hope you've shared these responses with your two BMs who are badly mistaken.

This has been an interesting conversation, and we have a new spin on this. A shareholder in our coop sublet his apartment to two people, who were Board-approved & moved in. Now one of them has moved out. This is a situation for the shareholder whose apartment it is (will the remaining person be able to pay?), but can the remaining sublessee bring in anyone as a Roommate without that person being interviewed?

What's the proper procedure? Thank you.

Interesting question about replacing a roommate under a sublease! My guess: If at least one person whose name appears on the sublease remains in the apartment, then the Roommate Law would apply and the replacement roommate would not need Board approval. Think of the base case where there is originally no roommate at all: one would expect the Roommate Law to allow the addition of a roommate without approval.

However, this could be completely wrong. With the shareholder out of the apartment, the Board has much more control. Ask a lawyer and let us all know the answer....

Thank you CDT! I'm not sure if the shareholder even knows about it yet -- it just happened on Friday. Yesterday I phoned and left a message to call me back. I'll keep you all posted on this interesting turn of events!

Just to follow up, no one on the board wants to know if the remaining sublessee gets a new roommate. Said it's none of our business. And so it goes.

the landlord of unsold shares has to pay - no?

here is some coops do - they hire a qualified PCO company ( Plus ou have to check all adjascent apartments on all sides above , below, etc with dogs) an then they send the bill to the building sponsor for his or her apartments - for that portion of the bill. they state to the sponsor that his tenants brought the bugs into the building just to cover themselves. this sgenerally saves a coop thousands of dollars

I am surprised there is not actual article covering this specific subject (money).

in short - a coop needs to act as fast as possible to contain any reported cases: if they do this, they will not have large costs due to the fact the bugs can so easily spread and may be also able to bill the resident for remediation. However, a wise coop will encourage people to report a case asap and not threaten to bill them UNLESS it spreads and they have not reported it in which case they could get a huge bill - get my drift.

2) residents need to report any signs of bugs asap and demand the coo. send in reputable experts - then they will be off the hook and the coop is liable if it spreads to any neighboring apartments.

Q: What is a Cooperative’s Responsibility for Eradication of Bedbug Infestation?

A: After practically disappearing since the early 1900’s, bedbugs are staging a comeback in apartments, hotels and homes throughout the United States. However, since 2004, there have only been a few reported cases in New York directly ruling on the issue of bedbugs and none of these cases deal directly with cooperatives.
Responsibility for eradication of bedbug infestation in a cooperative should generally be determined by the provisions of the proprietary lease. The proprietary lease makes a shareholder responsible to keep the interior of the apartment in good repair while the coop is responsible for keeping the building in good repair. Therefore, a shareholder should be responsible for remediating bedbug infestation within his own apartment. There is one exception, namely, the warranty of habitability which is a warranty read into every residential lease, including coop proprietary leases. The warranty of habitability requires that an apartment be fit for human habitation and free of dangerous conditions and may obligate a coop to remediate infestation unless the shareholder’s personal property is demonstrably the source of the infestation. If the infestation is limited to one apartment, chances are that the shareholder brought the bedbugs into the apartment and the warranty of habitability would be inapplicable because the law provides that if the condition at issue is caused by the tenant, the warranty is not breached. However, where multiple apartments are infested and it is difficult to identify the source of the infestation, remediation may become a Board responsibility.
By Albert F. Pennisi of the law firm of Pennisi, Daniels & Norelli, LLP, a law firm that represents Cooperatives and Condominiums located in Rego Park, Queens, New York

CAN SOME OTHER PEOPLE PLEASE RESPONSD!

Unless your proprietary lease is different from most in NYC, you must treat your sponsor the same way you would treat any other shareholder. In the case of pests, the corporation arranges and pays for the cleaning/exterminating, just as it would for any other neighbor.

Why would you decide otherwise?

bedbug treatment is over and above the average monthly extermination a coop might otherwise pay for. it is like mold remediation - something a coop should not pay for. at some point he sponsor must assume reponsibily for the internal mntnce of his own apartments - no?

Yes, perhaps bedbug treatment may be over and above normal extermination services; however the interests of the corporation and ALL the shareholders must be the board's top priority. Do not let finger-pointing get in the way of problem remediation - fix the problem first, then worry about who is going to pay, otherwise you will have a much bigger problem to resolve.

In my previous post I did not mean to suggest that the other writers in Board Talk are not dealing with the problem correctly. I just wanted to stress the importance of not letting the discussion of financial responsibility get in the way of treating the problem. If it is unclear in the governing documents, this may be a situation that would be best handled at a building level because its prompt resolution is in everyone's best interest.

hear, hear!

As a Board Member, your first responsibility is to the health, safety and well-being of the building, property, and residents. Take action first, sort out accountability later.

What are coops doing about bed bug when there is NO SPONSER?

Do they bill the shareholder? Or does the Coop pay?

I've been through this issue this week with one of my buildings (a coop) where bed bugs have seemed to pop up in a few apartments. Dealing with our attorney and with the Board on the decisions going forward, here is the advice that I received based on present law from the attorneys:

Unless you can prove that a bed bug infestation is confined to a singular apartment and that it didn't travel from someone else's apartment the Cooperative is responsible for the treatment and abatement of such an infestation. This is because the Cooperative is held in a landlord/tenant situation with the Shareholders as is provided by the Real Property Law. The only instance that a Cooperative can pass on the cost to the individual Shareholder is if they can prove that that particular Shareholder brought in the bugs and did not obtain it from another apartment.

If the Cooperative waits too long for treatment and it spreads to other apartments, the Board can be opening itself up to litigation as they may be impeding on the warrantee of habitability for the tenants in the building. Personal claims as well as financial rewards may be offered if taken to court.

The bottom line of this is that the Cooperative should take care of the situation first and then figure out which apartments should be responsible for the payment, if any. The fiduciary responsibility of the Cooperative is to protect the Shareholders and all of the apartments as a whole, and by delaying the remedy, they may be causing an explosion in the infestation as well as harm to the Shareholders.

I have asked around and here is how a coop needs to handle this. They send the sponsor a letter claiming the sponsor's tenant brought the bugs into the building themselves and they include the bill for extermination. done. sponsor must pay unless they can prove their tenant did not bring the bugs in.

it is important to remember the any given coop board holds the interests of the COOP and not the sponsor at hand.

RE: "unless they can prove their tenant did not bring the bugs in."

It's impossible to prove a negative. That's, like, first-year law. Asking anyone to prove their tenant did not do something or other is an impossible, and thus, unfair burden that could not hold up in court. If the sponsor wants to fight this, all he or she has to do is demand that the board prove that the tenant brought the bugs in.

dear any-moose,

good point. however it is worth sending the sponsor the bill because most of them are cheap bastards who have raped the coop for years.

Anonymous, you say it's worth billing the sponsor for bedbug extermination since most sponsors are "cheap bastards who have raped the coop for years." If I was ever convicted of a crime, I wouldn't want you on my jury.

Sponsors may not be everyone's favorite people, but you can't take out your dislike of what some of them do by judging one of them guilty of something you can't prove.

If you're just being vindictive, you're not black marking the sponsor by doing what you propose. You're black marking yourself as a board/board member that can't be trusted to be fair, honest and responsible.

Thank you, BP. That needed to be said.

Or perhaps a Board emeber that is not strong enough to stand up to the sponsor in the name of the true best interests of a coop ? If so, Feeling sad for the shareholders in your building..... come on , dont be silly, most of us know the sponsors are cheap looks , for one they sublet at market rate paying no fee to benefit the coop. that is not at all fair, is it?

AND I AM UPSET YOU ACCUSE ME OF BILKING ANYONE? I am merely pointing out they may, in fact. have a legal obligation to pay exterminator costs if their tenants have bedbugs.

funny what sentivitity is brought up by this subject - sponsor talk seems ot be taboo....

The angry tone, rushed misspellings, overuse of capital letters and the McCarthyesque phrase "sponsor symphathizer" is all a bit disturbing.

The law is clear on certain things, and knowingly going contrary to it out of some generalized dislike of all sponsors is not responsible board behavior. This isn't to say many a CEO hasn't many decisions out of such generalizations or personal pique, but such executives are hardly role models, and that sort of thing eventually leads to disgruntled shareholders.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "taboo" subject. Seems we're discussing the subject in detail.

I'm not a sponsor sympathizer. I sympathize with any entity that isn't treated fairly. If a coop claims that a sponsor's tenant is responsible for bugs in the bldg, some proof should be given to back it up - an admission by the tenant, an exterminator's report that a nest of bugs or unsanitary conditions was found in the tenant's apt, etc. How bedbugs got into a bldg is hard prove, but you can't blame a sponsor just because he's a sponsor.

Also, someone posted that sponsors are cheap and sublet apts at market rate with no fee paid to the coop. A sponsor as a holder of unsold shares can charge market rate for rent-stablized apts and must comply with NYC rent stablization guidelines, but he doesn't have to comply with certain coop dictates, at least not per my coop's by-laws. That may not seem fair, but that's the law.

All I was saying is that a coop should be fair in its dealings with sponsors, SHs, vendors or whoever, not because any rule or law says so but because it's the right way to do business, and countering unfairness with unfairness doesn't get anyone anywhere.

thanks BP - very nicely said on your last posting. sorry we crossed wires.

I think if the sponsor just pays the invoice and accepts the reason that his/her tenant brought them into the building by you telling him/her that the sponsor would be a bigger loser then you for proposing this!

I had a similar situation in my coop (different bug). The sponsor paid for continuous exterminating until the problem was resolved. It took months because the tenants did not change their habits and the sponsor eventually had to exterminate the entire building. His tenant, his responsibility. The end.

Why don't you get Con Edison to upgrade your electrical supply? It is going to cost you even more down the road! You should start putting funds on the side for this capital project. Sooner or later you are going to have to bite the bullet on this!

We have 75 units in our Coop built in 1950 which had 30 amp fuses. Our transformer blew 2 years ago when we were considering making the upgrade. Hire an electrical engineer to cost out the project of increasing power to the bldg (based on a load test) and add circuit breakers-NOT FUSES. When a circuit breaker trips, it's doing its job. We now have 60 amps per apt with dedicated outlets for AC and have not had 1 issue since. You may currently have residents trying to circumvent the fuses blowing by putting pennies/dimes behind them, which is an incident waitng to happen.

get a new panel and put in more circuits. Put in as many 20 amp circuits as you need and then a 45 amp main


Just bringing in power from the street does not get it to the panel. Check you lease to see who is responsable to bring the power up from the meter in the basement to the apt. Probably the shareholder

re your original question: if you "combined" existing circuits [which no licensed electrician would do] & turned on all appliances, the amperage would fry conventional wiring which is designed for much lesser loads.

One thing to consider is "slo-blo" fuses, which are designed to allow for the higher inrush current that all big appliances draw for a few seconds after being turned on. If used inappropriately, however, these can allow sensitive electronics--rather than cheap fuses--to burn out if there's an overload condition.

I agree that circuit breakers are preferable, particularly on an undersized service, because they're less prone to be abused [the penny trick]. However, this won't solve your power shortage. A creative engineer might find a compromise less costly than rewiring the entire building, such as installing a dedicated riser for big appliances that bypasses existing panels.

First, congratulations on getting out from under Sponsor control. It sounds like you're making great progress in improving your building.

"The third Friday of each month" is sometime from the 15th to the 21st. That's a little late, but not too bad. Most management companies (including ours) aim for no later than the 15th, and are sometimes a little earlier than that. However, you should always be able to have specific questions answered almost immediately if necessary. "Did Mr. Jones in 9A ever get around to paying his overdue maintenance last month?"

David, can you e-mail me (mblevine@ebmg.com)

Thanks.

It sounds like David G's coop has been doing great, but now needs a new management company. They are supposed to be guided by your policies, not the other way around. Easier said than done though!

Has your coop become a member of Association of Riverdale Cooperatives & Condominiums? They might be of help. The website is www.riverdale-arc.org

Good luck!
p.s. Our monthly statement isn't sent to the Board unti the LAST week of the month.

Hi David!

We usually get out draft monthly financials within the first week (we are expecting our July ones today). We have a period of comment then we get the final ones for our monthly Board Meeting, the third Wednesday. Our reports arrive in PDF format right to our email inboxes.

I hope this information helps!

Steve

the management company we just got rid of delivered our monthly financials around the 25th of the month. Our new company has them out to us between the 6th-9th of the month.

that was just one complaint against our former company.

some others were: losing $250,000 in flip taxes--blaming the bank then finally admitting that they sent the flip taxes back to the sellers of the apartments. all but $27,000 has been recovered (one person is playing hardball and the mgt company will have to make it up).

after they were informed that they were being let go they stopped paying bills and caused a lot of ill will with vendors and contractors; because they had a board member in their back pocket they knew they were going to be terminated and promptly resigned which meant we had to keep them for 60 days instead of 30 and they demanded that extra month management fee or they would hold our records hostage.

we also found a binder with a "partnership" proposal for an outside security company to take over the security function from our in house security force.

SO THE ADVICE WAS CORRECT...DON'T ASSUME YOUR MANAGEMENT COMPANY HAS THE BEST INTERESTS OF YOUR BUILDING ...MAKE SURE YOU COMPLETELY RESEARCH (AND SPEAK TO BOARD MEMBERS FROM OTHE BUILDINGS MANAGED BY THEM) ANY COMPANY THAT YOU INTEND TO HIRE. IT WAS A COSTLY LESSON FOR US.

David G - If your bld went coop in '84 and your coop plan stated that the sponsor had to remain as managing agent for the coop's five 5 years, then you should have gotten rid of the sponsor as managing agent in 89.

First - I'd suggest you research, interview and get a new management company ASAP.

Second - Maybe I misunderstood you, but your residential SHs shouldn't make decisions to hire an engineer, initiate bldg projects, etc. If you want their input, fine, but these are decisions the board should make.

I want to clarify - The Board is responsible for setting policy SH can provide comments, recommendations, but we don’t allow them to initiate actives outside of board approval etc. Sorry for the confusion.

Thank you for your comments, we have a clear theme, the time has come research and move on from the managing agent. I will discuss with my fellow residential board members.

David G - Sorry, I accidentally hit "send" before I finished my reply to you. I'd said: first - get a new management company ASAP and second - your board should be making decisions on getting an engineer, initiating bldg projects, etc., not your SHs. Picking up where I left off......

Third - As long as your sponsor is managing agent, it sounds like he'll put a stopper in anything you try to do, if you let him get away with it. If he doesn't have majority control of your board, you can hire whatever management company the board wants to hire.

Four - As managing agent, your sponsor can't tell you when he'll give you financial info or withhold info. The managing agent works for the board, not the other way around. And he should definitely not be co-mingling your coops' funds with those of other bldgs.

In our coop, we get a monthly management report with owner payments, aged payables, bills paid, funds in accounts, etc. for each month by the 5th of the next month. Also, we (the board) can call our managing agent or his company's accounting dept at any time and get replies to any financial questions, such as did Owner X pay his arrears yet or how much to date is in our reserve fund.

The coop's management agent/company works for the coop. They can advise, recommend or make suggestions, but all final decisions should rest with the board.

If you want your monthly financials earlier than your sponsor, as managing agent, wants to give them to you, tell him so. He should have been out of this role years ago.

Start looking for new management now. The longer your sponsor is managing agent and controls you, for every step forward you try to take, his involvement will only result in your taking two steps backward.

Your reply re the sponsor as managing agent is a good one for all board members about their management companies -- especially new directors, who often don't understand the dynamics yet and think the property manager's position is the final one. Even seasoned board members sometimes let everything be decided by the property manager, actually believing (or convincing themselves) that's the PM's job. Things can get out of hand without anyone noticing (even the PM).

Hi David
I commend you, that you joined the board a year after you purchased your apartment. Our building is 33% owned by the sponsor, and they were our managing agent until a year ago. After a long search we finally switched agents, it wasn't easy to find a good agent that would take over from a sponsor management. since then we have had substantial improvements. Our Monthly report comes on the 15 of the month, we have the option of email or hard copy sent to us. However if we ever need any information earlier they have no problem giving it to us.

We amended our By-Laws last year, and no one -- including our attorney -- ever said anything about filing the amended By-Laws with any state or local agency. The only fees involved were those paid to our attorney for review and advice on our original By-Laws, which hadn't been updated in 25 years.

Also, you mentioned that your amendments were by shareholder vote. That's fine, but most By-Laws allow amendment by a vote of the Board alone. (See Article XII, if your By-Laws are similar to those of many NYC co-ops.) This isn't true of the Proprietary Lease, which can only be amended by a supermajority vote of the shareholders.

We don't have an Article XII - unless I'm missing pages. But, in any case, another section in our By-laws states specifically that By-Laws can only be amended by a vote of SH's. This seems standard, according to what a couple of attorneys told me.

Anyway, thanks for the response. It's nice to know that the amendment process is not as difficult as I was led to believe and that we do not have to file anything with the state.

Our board announced we will be voting on an amendment but will not let us read it until the vote at the annual meeting.

I'm not an attorney, but recommend extreme caution here:

1--I've seen amendments to By-Laws nullified because they were not properly filed [w/Dept. of State...not the AG]. The procedure is not burdensome, & is required.

2--Boards are typically empowered to modify House Rules without owner vote. I believe By-Laws ALWAYS require an owner vote to amend...usually a super-majority.

3--All By-Laws I've seen require that the content of any proposed amendment be published to all shareholders in advance, typically 30 days before a vote.

Our building voted against an amendment three times to change by laws – management realizing they couldn’t get the power in the amendment – just sent out a letter assuming all the power – any thoughts?

Maya - collect all of the paperwork and documentation you can, especially if you have the notifications of the three amendment defeats and the letter where the board takes the arbitrary actions. Contact the A/G's office and ask them what you should do. I am not a lawyer, but this sounds like a violation of laws or regulations regarding co-op corporation governance.

It is possible that the powers the board is assuming are different enough from what would be granted by the amendment and they are within the law for doing what you describe. The A/G's office should be able to help you with this.

Our building voted against an amendment three times to change by laws – management realizing they couldn’t get the power in the amendment – just sent out a letter assuming all the power – any thoughts?