When I told my largest shareholder to vote for me; and in exchange, after the election I would let his wife and kids out of the duffle bags and set them free, they yelled and threatened me.. I don't know why.

Of course it is not ethical.
[just in case... the above is only a dramatization to display a point!]

while i agree about not being ethical, the question was more about it being a crime.
Lastly if someone asked who should they vote for or if i had recommendations then i would reply, but i never offer my opinion with out being invited to do so. That would make it at least ethical.
Pg

Your right...
While I do not believe it to be criminal, I personally cannot answer if it is illegal or not. unfortunately unethical and illegal are not synonomous.

~AR

It is only a crime if you vote for them and they do a lousy job. I hope you are not suggesting for one minute that these fine people are running to serve their own self interests and not the Coops. Oh God, never.

FN

I loved the first part of your answer FN.

Perish the thought!! LOL!! I never allow other people to tell me who to vote for but unfortunately some self serving board members keep getting re-elected and various shareholders have been harassed to change their votes by former board members. What can those harassed shareholders do, if anything? The elections are over (THANK GOD!) and some idiots did not get re-elected. But some did. SIGH!

It is difficult to answer or provide you with a straight answer on this one:

1. Who is asking you to vote for John Doe?
2. When is the person asking to change your vote?

Ask yourself if the Teachers'Federation does well to endorse a candidate, or if a well-known individual asks TV viewers or radio listeners to vote for John Doe.

Perhaps you may tell me,"ask" is not "tell". However, "telling" is not "cohersing" or "directing".
and it is not the equivalent of a pre-printed ballot.

Finally, "in the land of the free" I cannot think of intimidation when someone tells you to vote for John Doe and that someone does it because he/she is told.

More detail on this one is required to give a definitive answer on this one!

AdC

Do you receive an annual proxy voting form?

Does the form not suggest (nee recommend) who the current board would like added to the board by name?

Enough said.

Now the unethical part that I can contemplate is that a board member is privy to the proxy returns and deduces that a shareholder has cast a ballot for other than the preferred candidates. Now the board member or shareholder uses this information to ask one or more shareholders to change their vote.

On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with asking a shareholder for whom they voted and if the response is other than the one that is our preference then lobbying the shareholder to modify his or her ballot.

It seems everyone is agreed that it is definitely not illegal; however, the moral or ethical aspect of this is creating a variance of opinion.

While Ted makes a good point, and I am sure many share the belief that there is nothing wrong with asking someone about their vote, I believe that anything that creates question of immorality, may very well be, and thus should be refrained from. (not referring to a pre-election lobbying)I also believe that once the election is complete, no one has the right to know how anyone voted.

When I hold elections in my buildings, only myself and a neutral third party counter are aware of who voted for whom. I recently had a Board member (who was voted in again) ask me to see the final ballots the day afterwards so he can see who voted for whom. I informed him that this was unethical and I will not permit it (was hard to do as a paid manager). While it did get a little heated, the rest of the Board backed my decision with regard to this. Had I disclosed the information, who knows how he would have used it against the people who did not vote as he wished.

Anyway, what I am saying is.. at the end of the day it's left-right-center so go with your own convictions and you will most probably be right (no pun intended!).

~AR

Some other instances if you wish to be concrete:

1. Promising personal benefits to individual voters as a result of being elected, i.e., jumping the parking waiting list, maintennance reduction, etc.
2. Promising specific agenda for the buildings contrary to the common good, i.e., lifting sublet restrictions, reducing or holding maintenance in spite of higher costs.
3. Cohersing - slashing tires of cars of individual shareholders if...

Yes, your point is good - after the fact investigation of votes should not be permitted. In fact, I would rather lie in your case by saying that the tally of votes was eaten by the dog or used in your charcoal grill than giving it out.

Again, the problem is not vote solicitation, but how it is solicited including actions that accompany the solicitation.

AdC

We destroy the proxies very soon after the election after the ballots are certified by the tallier.

Public corporations destroy proxies; we do too.

Less chance for litigation, more expensive for a challenge.

I keep hearing different things about how you can submit a proxy (not here, from coops/boards I personally know). Must you receive a proxy with a Sh's original signature on it, or can you accept a proxy submitted by fax or e-mail?

Since a corporation is a legal entity, I would submit this by way of resolution that is blessed by your legal counsel. Through this chatroom you can get the pulse of how elections are viewed; so, you need to ensure that your process is legal.

(1) Generally, a fax image is considered a substitute of the original in the absence of the original in a court of law. After all, a fax image is as good as a photocopy, i.e., the fax cannot be electronically manipulated to provide you a third document (yes, almost anything today may be manipulated electronically by scanning).

(2) An e-mail of "me" stating that I empower "you" to be my proxy representative is a NO as no signature is associated and anyone may get on your machine and send the message. However, a jpeg file of the executed document sent via e-mail may served as a substitute to the original. Possibly, you will have to retain the source (jpeg and e-mail note) to show the nature and the source of the document in a court of law.

AdC

Has anyone ever used an online voting system? We have trouble getting a majority of the shareholders (incl. proxies) to even hold a meeting. If we want to amend the Proprietary Lease or Bylaws, we would need even more. We think an online voting system might attract more voters.

What makes people NOT VOTE???

If they don't use a a self-stamped envelope (which we have used in the past), I don't think they will do it via phone or electronically. (The analogy is the news given on a rolling monitor; it needs to be read - so, if you do not read the paper, chances are that you will not be motivated to read a rolling electronic monitor).

I think part of the problem is a basic word, "KNOWING". Yes, knowing you have responsibility as a citizen,if in in a democracy, to vote for our representatives or knowing that a shareholder has responsibility to vote the shares.

Probably, you have shares of companies, mutual funds, insurance, or even credit unions. They send you proxies all the time. My question to you, "What do you do with this material?".

Obviously, we want to reap dividends, obtain market growth, etc., but who runs the company - WHO CARES!!! What are the proposals on the table at the annual meeting- WHO CARES!!!.

Interesting enough, great social justice developments in South Africa were the result of shareholders involved in corporate voting. However, the common individuals buy or commit their small wealth to types of investments they do not know and do not expect to know. So... WHAT's the difference with a Co-op???

AdC

In addition to looking at the apartment, 2 other things a buyer should look for is a restaurant and a bus stop.

Anon (no anons) please.I think the person is looking for a solution here?

Bob

If you have a managing agent, talk to him/her, because property managers tend to have a lot of experience to draw upon. If those solutions don't work, try your lawyer -- I'm NOT suggesting legal action. That's a last resort. But your lawyer may have a good suggestion. He/she may even be able to point to a law the restaurant is violating, and help you write a letter from the board (not from the lawyer) pointing this out. Then, if there's no action, send a letter to the city and cc the restaurant. That's my top-of-the-head advice.

It is up to you. If you believe that you have made all the good faith attempts to solve this issue without success, then call 311. Not sure if it is a DoB, DoH or DEP issue but i am sure 311 operator will direct you call to the approperate agency.
Pgrech

The best reason I've come up with to encourage shareholders to run for the board is this:

PROTECT YOUR INVESTMENT!

For most people, and certainly for me, one's home is the biggest single financial investment we make. As if New York apartment prices aren't high enough, add the cost of the interest on a mortgage and you have a truly huge amount of money tied up in your apartment.

Serving on the board means you decide how to maintain it (replacing old pipes, repairing aesthetic damage like, saving money for future expenses) and how to improve it (buy things with a short warranty or pay for a longer warranty? establish uniform and fair methods to enforce house rules). You decide where the money goes, and how much to take in.

Other reasons:
-- Living in NYC we're lucky in that our apartments appreciate in value nearly without exception. Want to make it worth even more? Improve the building (facade, boiler, elevator), improve the financials, and give people a reason to want to live there.

-- Buying into a cooperative means you really ought to cooperate, and help each other out, even if it means serving a year on the board.

-- Those who serve even one year on the board end up knowing much more about how the building & business run, and what the co-op's possibilities and limitations are. In my own experience, nearly everyone who "retired" from the board in our building no longer complains about the building -- because they know what it's like to be on the other side, trying to resolve those complaints.

Not everyone will want to serve on the board even in the best of buildings; don't badger these folks. Focus on the ones who are fair, polite, and open to alternative points of view.

If you have a dishonest board, you may need to run a slate against them. But don't feel that's the only way. Get a couple of good people to run, and encourage them to campaign.

Let me comment on your other ideas ...
-- Term limits. Fine, but remember that you'll have to find people to fill the forced openings, and that one day you'll force out really good people. (One way around this is to limit terms of offices -- pres, treas, sec -- but not to the board itself.)
-- Requiring service. It's probably not legal, and even if it were, that would mean forcing people into something they won't contribute to. And it means that nutty neighbor with 17 cats or the all-night partier will end up deciding what's best for you.
-- Paying a nominal honorarium/maint fee abatement. Paying is dicey only because it gives people the wrong motivation. That said, waiving one month's maint fee (at the conclusion of a full year's service) would help some of us feel better about the hours of time we volunteer in the service of our neighbors.

respect
acknowledgement of service
time off for good behavior

Thank you both for these thoughtful responses. We'll see!

There is no way to motivate any participation unless the person has a call within...

Unfortunately, many organizations that were vibrant in the '70, '80 and '90 are DYING a slow death due to lack of participation.

I belong to two chapters of professional organizations that have or are contemplatng to fold up due to lack of interest... When seeing this, I just realize that our co-op is no exception. After all, we are living in the same age. In fact, I just got an annonymous from (you may use any qualifier you want, it just fits the character) because of a typo in an announcement. However, the person is not able to make it to an annual meeting, the person is not able to commit his/her name, the person is just not even correcting in kindness - it's just trying to hurt me!

Interesting enough you are not alone when it comes to participation. People just want a get a share of market...

Count the good ones, and keep plowing... as in the last 30 minutes of the Indiana Jones movie, an old knight says to Indy, "You chose wisely..." This is the bottom line; don't expect to get the crowds, but just the gems.

Good luck!

AdC

Perhaps they were trying to tell you that, in addition to a certain amount of reserves that should be estimated for emergencies, you should have your capital fund. The cash reserve should be layered in the form of CDs and T-bonds maturing in such a way that you will have enough funds to take care of the emergencies, plus your money to take care of your long-term plan. Similarly, you will not plan all the major capital expenditures to be taken care every 5- or 10-years, i.e., your boiler replacement, your roof replacement, your underground tank, window replacements, etc. These will be staggered and probably, you may have a capital work every year and your investments should be in line with your plan in order to have cash on hand to pay for these.

So, in builidng reserves you should not only take care of the long-term capital plan, but emergencies by doing an add on to the amount that you need to build.

Finally, all reserves are equal. You will use the money from whatever maturing account you have in order to retire your debt whether it is an emergency or a planned capital improvement. The point is always make a contingency fund for emergencies which should be in accordance with the size of your building and the general coniditons of your facilities and equipment.

AdC

AdC

Perhaps they were trying to tell you that, in addition to building capital reserves for major projects, you should earmark a portion of these reserves for emergencies. In other words, if you think that you should fund your long term capital fund with $100,000 a year, you should add $10,000 for an emergency fund for a total of $110,000. If you do not use the emergency fund that year it keeps growing. In this way, you stay on course to do your capital replacement even when you had taken money to address emergency situations.

The reserves in the form of CDs and T-bonds should be layered to provide flexibility and enough funds to take care of the emergencies, and your long-term plan. Similarly, you will not plan all the major capital expenditures to be taken care every 5- or 10-years, i.e., your boiler replacement, your roof replacement, your underground tank, window replacements, etc. These will be staggered and probably, you may have capital improvements every year according to an outlined plan. Therefore, your your capital funds should be in line with your plan in order to have cash on hand to pay for these according to the schedule.

So, in buildng reserves you should not only take care of the long-term capital plan, but emergencies by doing an add on to the amount that you will need to build.

Finally, all reserves are created equal as the color of money is the same. You will use the money from whatever maturing account you have in order to retire your debt whether it is an emergency or a planned capital improvement. The point is always add on your captital fund for emergencies which should be in accordance with the size of your building and the general coniditons of your facilities and equipment.

AdC

Thanks, but I AM confused about the color of money! I thought they were saying that if you segregate capital funds from regular (anything non-capital), there are benefits to the shareholders. Benefits like increasing the tax basis of their apartments so when they sell, the technical profit, and tax, will be lower. And also (maybe, I wasn't clear on this) that the building can apply for J51 credits for cap improvements. But, you have to tell shareholders up front that a portion of maintenance or the assessment, or however you're funding, is for capital improvements and then you would have keep that money separate from other funds to get the benefits (tax basis, J51 credits). And, your managing agent or accountant, would have to keep track of the maintenance or assessments earmarked for cap improvements.

If we don't have to keep it separate by account, it all becomes somewhat easier and clearer. But, if you don't keep it separate by account, you just indicate on reports which funds in the reserve are for what?

You ought to have a meeting with your independent accountant to go over the best way to maximize your tax basis, etc. Also, the comptroller of your management office may provide you some guidance with regard to accounts, etc.

Your operating is kept in your checking and, sometimes, depending on collections and when you pay your bills, you may have a CD associated where you can sweep your account and call from it as required in order to maximize your interest.

Obviously, your reserves are kept separately and only tapped when necessary to do strictly capital, even in emergencies. Unless I don't know what you mean for emergencies, i.e., a major unexpected leak that forces the co-op to spend $50,000 to replace with enhancement of your parking roof (just by way of example).

Your operating budget should be as solid as possible to cover all your expenses during the year. The fact that some builidngs keep the maintenance artificially low and assess to cover deficits may be a problem if you are doing assessments to build reserves and at the same time patch deficits.


In our case, we have three accounts: the operating, a tax escrow to accummulate the surplus during those months in which we have no payments to do, then reserves. We flow monies from escrow to operating and viceversa in order to pay our taxes and insurance. However, the reserves are kept just for major emergencies and capital repairs.

AdC

I don't mean CD but money market for an account to flow back and forth.

AdC

Larry I am doing a lot of things this year, Now please can you elaborate so we can respond.

FN

Are you, as board members and managers of cooperative housing corporations, who are likely undergoing your budget process for 2008, likely to put forth maintenance increases to be paid by your corporations shareholder for the upcoming fiscal year 2008?

If so, then what percentage over your current maintenance charges are you likely to raise maintenance?

Each building is different depending on the budget from the prior year. For instance, some of my buildings i budgeted enough to account for rising cost in the 08 year, some we did not.

On average (in most of my buildings),
~fuel is up, and now (today)announced and expected to top $3.00 per gallon on #2 oil - a 17% increase over my last years year end average (these numbers many differ from my other post)
~Insurance is increased 3% (not too bad)
~Water & Sewer is up 11%
~RE Taxes are up, but we are promised a decrease?? (For budgeting purposes ignore the promises and budget up 8%
Salary - up 3.5%

lets average them to 8.5% together,
given these expenses are 70% of the total budget, would give me a mandated 5.95% increase to maintain this years financial stability.

therefore, if you did not budget the extra 6% last year, you should increase this year, and take into account next year, unless you are like many buildings that opt to raise every year by a standard inflationary number.
Some buildings will raise every to years and assess a fuel cost assessment if needed to balance out.
Either way is good - unlike years ago where buildings were not wanting to raise maintenance because they thought it looked bad to potential buyers and banks; I believe buyers and banks are more understanding of the changing times, and we have to change with them. There is alot more instability in the markets nowadays and it is more acceptable to review and revise your maintenance and budget year by year. I believe it better on the shareholders as well.

We raise yearly costs to shareholders every year by a percentage between 3 to 4%. The rational is that the shareholders become acclimated to an increase very year. Heaven forbid we skip a year and then because of some quirk, we need to raise maintenance by a double digit value. It would be pandemonium. Our assessment has remained constant at about $6 a share for several years. Prior to three years ago, we raised the assessment at the rate of $.25 a year to finally arrive at $6. Now our 45 year old coop building and property with 500 units and 160,000 shares garners about $960.000 a year for our capital improvement program.

OK, unless I misinterpreted the question Ann, here is my view;'
If you are the treasurer and you have the need to do this, I think the better or more logical question is, why?

First, to answer your question, yes, there are many programs that permit access. (MRI, Yardi, even the old BJ Murray does)this is possible, though maybe not permissible.

Second, your management should be paying all bills on a timely basis, approving any that may need your approval (I PDF them and use email), and providing you a full accounting report at the months end with copies of all the bank statements and bills paid.

If a treasurer has access to my system, I would have to charge a lot more to manage that building. It is the equivalent of hiring a contractor to do a job, them getting underneath him with a level and plumb line. Let him work, he's there so you don't have to be. All you need do is oversee and ensure the proper job is being done. in your case, it is via the monthly financial statement you receive.

~AR

is on the wrong trail, I suspect.

Ann, are you thinking of self-managing?

Are you trying to pick the brains of managing agents for the right software to let you do that?

; )

We seem to have a problem with how items are coded by our agent. They 'move around' within the accounts month to month or large unusual items are put in a regular, usually steady, account. This lack of consistency makes it difficult to see how much we are spending on a regular basis and how much for emergencies and other 'one offs'. I was thinking that it might be common practice to have online access to view reports (as is standard in business) and be able to click on an account to see what expenses have been put in it--rather than having to ask about each oddity every time.

Alternatively, I was thinking we need to approve account codes for invoices before they are booked. The purpose is not to micromanage, but to get a decent grip on our finances: what's 'regular' expense and what's unusual--so that we can plan and budget.

I'm trying to find out what other people are doing if they are having these kinds of problems, and what the best solution would be.

Anne:

Many treasurers and Boards unfortunately do not take the time to thoroughly review and classify, etc. They just go by what management says, read and take the reports as provided, and pop a question here and there when something looks odd. What your asking for is good and in many buildings is needed. You do have the right and ability to customize the reports to fit your needs and requirements.

Who’s GL coding system is management going by? Yours or theirs? Perhaps sitting with the accounting department and PM for an hour will solve it. Make a list of your current coding and desired coding. Have management implement the new codes or sub-codes and have the agent when signing off label it - such as capital/hallway project/engineering or repair/reimbursable/apt7B - etc...
It makes it very easy for you to glean over the list and trace or see exactly what expenses come from where and are allocated to where. The only follow up on your part may be asking if 7B ever reimbursed us for that sink trap repair.

Then, in your monthly reports, have management separate anything that is capital from the operating expenses and emergency repairs from maintenance repairs and itemize what needs to be for the purposes of your next budget.

This is a pain in the a$$ for management, but much better and easier to read and forecast from. We do it for 2 of our buildings and they like it very much.
But providing access to the system would be a definite no-no for us or any other management company (We only provide it to the PM's, the accountant firm and L&T attorneys)
Did I adaquately address/answer your concern?
~AR

Thanks. That's helpful.

They are using their own GL accounts which do not match well to the accountant's GL accounts and which do not segregate capital from regular expenses. And, they have a tendency to open up new accounts for very small amounts, like $15, while putting large, $11,000, 'one off' expenses in regular accounts--so all is rather confusing.

I had already requested on the next round of reports that they 'code' the invoice copies so I can see where the expenses went, and was thinking I just need to go down there and talk it through so we can agree on some basic principles of where things go and what amounts (large ones!) justify a new account or separation from regular accounts.

What's the 'pain' for management? The coding of invoices or the segregation of capital expenses? I'm not trying to be unreasonable, just trying to get a handle on what's happening and where the money's going so we can budget and plan.

Great..

You should definitely spend some time at the management office, relay exactly what you wish to happen and why. They will be able to do it (but may gripe a little). If a new type of expenditure comes up (which should not because you would have worked all that out with them), then they should call you to say "what do you want me to do with the $2,000 Goldfingers bill.."
The software ledger will need to be modified by management and the new system implemented. this may take a month or two to get the kinks out, but it should work out in the long term.
I may have exaggerated in that it is a pain, it is more of an inconvenience, but they will get over it...

~AR

The problem with codes is the codes are not or rarely put on the actual purchase order. So when the invoice comes in accounting takes a guess where it goes. The super/managing agent need to apply the codes upon ordering material or repairs. Problem solved. Of course you have to make sure the codes are applied to the right line item on the budget.
Its also a good idea that every 4 months or so someone sits with the super and showers him/her exactly where the building is on budget. Most of the times, supers - Resident managers do not know, no one tells them or teaches them.
This will help stay on budget.
Pgrech

That is real good.... I never thought of informing the super as to where we are in the budget. I think that is a great idea for various reasons. (gonna steal that idea and implement it!)thanks

The use of PO numbers (which include the GL code acronym)can help to pre-clasify items.

~AR

Naaa, your not stealing it. Your very welcome to it.
Be well
Pgrech

Whether you go by the management office system or the horoscope system, your treasurer and your board should have a copy of the charts of accounts. The treasurer may define each chart of accounts for types of invoice entries he/she wishes to see. (Note: try not to use miscellaneous categories - you end with the kitchen sink if you have such a line item!).

There is nothing that prevents a board member, specially a treasurer to ask for re-classificaiton of an invoice for budget tracking purposes. On a six month basis, i.e., in July, you should ask for expenses year-to-date broken by GL's, and ask for reclassification of those invoices that are out of line with the GL's. It happens often, but not really something to lose sleep over it.

In our case, we ask management to pay anything that the coop is committed to pay under contract or recurrent, i.e., mortgage, taxes, con-ed, water, elevator service, telephones, salaries, etc. However, any other repairs, i.e., plumbing, supplies, electrical, engineering, legal, other professionals, the treasurer goes over them.

My recommendation to any treasurer is to sit with the super and clear the invoices initiated by him/her to ensure that the services were received and that the work was up to standards. Similarly, check supplies carefully with the super as there may be backorders, credits and returns that all should match. Good organizations ask that shipping slips are matched with the invoices. The super should check the received items on the shipping slip, then attached to the invoice for payment.

As PGretch and AR state, the super should be briefed (depending on his status within the co-op) about the financial position of the co-op at any given point in time. Making him aware of the present financial circumstances makes the super a team player. A super who deals with a large department of poters and other service men to supervise and whose skills are more demanding by way of supervision and budget, may be told more detail about the operational items that he/she oversees, i.e., utilities, repairs and salaries, i.e., OT, vacations, etc. than a superintendent of a small builidng where he/she may be a solo performer.



AdC

NYSERDA will be exhibiting at the CNYC Conference's Expo this Sunday too. This is the seminar: 2. BEING GREEN IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT Energy consultant Lewis M. Kwit will lead a discussion of sustainability as it impacts cooperatives and condominiums. The session will offer practical advice for buildings to develop their own sustainability portfolio, the types of technologies which contribute to a sustainable living environment and incentives available from the State, City and Federal governments for implementing these protocols. Joining Mr. Kwit will be sustainability experts from the City of New York, The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA), Green Building Architects and practitioners in multifamily buildings. For more info 212-496-7400 and http://www.cnyc.coop

I just noticed in my November issue of Habitat on pgs. 26 & 27 NYSERDA and many others will be at the Conference's Expo on Nov. 11. Talking in person always helps.

Has anyone been able to get them to come do an energy audit? We established a committee and pursued, but just got run around between agencies. Anyone had success? How'd you do it?

Unfortunately, boards do not do a good job of communicating with shareholders the expenses they have to face. Your example sounds like the people next door to me. My next door co-op neighbor was assessed $2 million dollars more in property value last year. I don't know if they tried to contest it, but they are stuck with an invoice to pay, any reductions from contesting the bill will come later on.

If you heard the recent news: those who use heating oil to warm a building, are expected to pay 20% over last year's prices. In our specific case, This will mean approx. $16K more in an $80K oil budget. Only 6 years back, we were paying from $38 to $45K BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

Shall I keep going?...

At our last annual shareholders' meeting, I sort of provided some VERY revealing numbers for shareholders (people love statistics, as you know) Our site manager and independent auditor thought I was very smart in bringing the numbers along -- as you know you have to know your line!:

From 2001 to 2007 our taxes went up 150%. Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers handy to give you an idea of the magnitude of our increase in just 7 years. The tax invoice is not like the bridge over the Westside communicating Riverdale and Manhattan that you can go some other route and not pay. I used to pay $0.10 in 1972 and now it is over $3.00 (I guess E-Z pass made me forget!).

Where is the money coming from? Obviously, if you don't expect skimping, then you are expected to pay. No two ways about it! As long as it is landscaping that you building is skimping you are fine. What about other essential services such as expensive equipment maintenance?

Finally and my very sincere recommendation: join the board to find what some of your fellow shareholders must put up by way of making ends meet at the larger house.

Alternatively, if my recommendation is not part of your plan and if you cannot afford it anymore, then it is time to think of your personal choices. I have already worked my exit plan, i.e., a camping tent, a winnebago, a house in the idillic mountains of PR where I can raise chickens, potatoes and plaintains and perhaps a cow to milk! No, I'm not being sarcastic; it's the dilemma that we all need to come to grips.

Unfortunately, co-ops do not have subsidies and you and I are the only sole supporters of the system.

Good luck!

AdC

"...a house in the idillic mountains of PR where I can raise chickens, potatoes and plaintains and perhaps a cow to milk.." sounds tempting!

Anyway, oil price this morning is at $2.7983 per gallon for #2 oil. Last year during the heating peak, we were paying $2.29. I anticipate a price of above $3.20 PG in the peak of season. As AdC pointed out, someone has to pay for this.

Boards do not like to raise maintenance every time there is a price increase that was not anticipated, but times are changing and I believe larger and more time structures increases are to, and should be anticipated. Temporary fuel assessments and higher inflationary increases are becoming the norm. These reluctant boards are trying to make up for not raising the maintenance as much as they should by cutting corners elsewhere. Depending on the individual personality of your building, this may or may not be a good idea.

TIP:
Have an assessment done of your boiler, heat timer (and settings), riser & return lines, building envelope, insulation, etc. and remedy all areas needed. Through this I have been able to yield a 15 to even a 38% savings in one other building.

~AR

also have nyserda do an energy audit of your building. it is subsidized and they will halep you save $. also write to the board and ask them to have the water bil checked. we just got 20k by doing this.

Who is a good heat consultant to check for the distribution system?

AdC

Interesting finding in our bldg. Our lobby is 30'x40" and not heated. It is of course warmer than outside in the winter, but people comment how cool it gets if they stop to chat with our doorman or linger for any reason. A door off the lobby goes to the back where our trash areas, laundry and bldg system rooms are. We recently emptied all the back rooms and had our exterminator locate and seal all holes, then the whole area was painted. There were a lot of holes and a few major fissures in boiler and oil tank room walls.

The purpose was pest control and long overdue maintenance but we're noticing how much warmer the lobby is. The walls and floors are marble so the lobby is cool even before temps really start dropping but the difference is already very noticeable.

Proof that sealing holes, etc. is a worthwhile effort. Our lobby is pleasantly warmer. As I said, it isn't heated but if it were, I'm sure the work we did would be saving us money on heating it.

What I usually do, is have the oil distributor (Castle, Metro, etc..) perform an energy assessment (Free of charge), then I do the rest. I sometimes use Lane engineering for the physical envelope assessment. I perform the distribution, return and system analysis myself. so there is no company I can recommend (maybe I/we should start one!?)
I realize that does not help many people here, so I will explain a few (10) things that you can do yourself to help. Of course there are many more...

1. Ensure all heat risers and returns are insulated as adequately as possible including exposed risers in apartments that are not being used for heat.
2. Ensure all domestic hot water lines are adequately insulated.
3. Have the super turn OFF the automatic water feeder in the boiler. Place a piece of tape at the current fill line and wait 24 hours. Then see how much water was lost. In this weather, anything more than 1/2 inch is too much and may suggest a problem such as water leaks in the boiler (Leaks outside the system can be ascertained by checking the condensation on the pipes at this time), or your return lines. If you have a heat timer with a return line sensor on this line, your boiler is running extra cycles for nothing.
4. Remedy any deficiencies from #3.
5. Sometimes heat distribution is uneven throughout the building. Some will complain about too much heat, some too little. This can be a different cause in different buildings. Two of the most common are: missing radiators on a riser (usually due to previous construction): there will be uneven amounts of heat in each riser - the remedy - tap valves. Another reason is that the air vent valves on the radiator is the wrong size for the location of the radiator. many supers have a hard time figuring which valve to put where and as a result, use the same one everywhere. I found in 100% of the buildings i looked at, I had to replace and reset all the valves. This is a topic that I can almost write a book on!
6. Always make sure that from spring-fall your boiler is set to "low fire" and readjusted in heating season. Otherwise you are burning 2X the needed fuel during those times.
7. Have the tubes and system cleaned regularly (important)
8. Have the heads of the burner cleaned (the super should do this every month)
9. OK, I cannot legally say to do this, or that I do it... on a marginal weather day, your burner waste sometimes double the fuel than a day with solid cold. It will continue the heat cycles all day to establish a temperature that may only be 1-6 degrees above the out door temperature. "many supers I know will turn the boiler on Summer during these days" I do not even get complaints.
10. Shop your oil, don't be afraid just because you have a long term relationship.. that may just be why your over paying.

~AR

Hi, Fred,

I've done a study of maintenance fees in Manhattan co-ops. If you're in Manhattan, respond here with your neighborhood and your monthly maintenance and the square feet of your apt (very important!), and I'll tell you if your maintenance is higher or lower than your neighbors'.

After all, everyone feels that their maintenance is too high. But as other posters have pointed out, taxes are way up, fuel oil is way up, utilities are up, insurance is up, and inflation is up.

The only thing that isn't up is the cost to ride the Staten Island Ferry. But those boats aren't comfortable for sleeping. Me, I'd go for the farm in Puerto Rico.