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apt. insurance - group discount. anyone? BP?Jun 01, 2007


we are considering making an amendment that all residents in the coop (inc. the sponsor's market-rate rentals) must have renters or coop insurance. as an incentive, we would like to negogiate a group discount with an insurance company (for example, if anyone uses Travelers, they get a 20% discount) - has anyone done this?

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Discounts - AdC Jun 01, 2007


It sounds like a noble effort that may not be worth it. These are my immediate reactions:

(1)You have to re-bid every year the insurance so that you stay competitive with the rates offered by various insurance companies.

(2) Individual shareholders may receive a greater discount if they have a car and other insurance that may qualify them. Similarly, some individuals may get umbrella policies for cars, boats, co-op that will go beyond the basic.

(3) Co-op insurance has different components: liability / personal. Some may think that their personal component should not be more than $10K while others may wish to take added personal for valuable objects such as work of arts, jewelry, antiques, etc.

(4) There are insurances that offer the additional assessmsent coverage in the event of total destruction of the building and need to additionally assess for reconstruction if a total replacement insurance is not in place for the co-op.

Good luck if you feel your efforts will be compensated!

AdC

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Not practical - TedT-NJ Jun 01, 2007


Insurance companies do not wish to assume the burden for an entire building. As a matter of fact, they have sophisticated systems that discern how much coverage they’ve written for a property and then they reinsure via any number of reinsures.

Thus, it would seem unlikely they would bid on an entire building.

In my case, I have my homeowners, auto and a mega-million umbrella policy with one carrier. For this, I obtain a discount.

Again, one carrier is unlikely to offer all residents a similar “discount” as it leaves the carrier quite exposed.

Let me ask another question; why even burden the board with this work? In my view, there are many more areas for board concentration than saving shareholders a few dollars which they soon will soon overlook.





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We require proof of insurance - TedT-NJ Jun 01, 2007


Sure someone can cancel after showing us the policy, but at least they had insurance once.

Last May 2006 as I was traveling on the west coast, our building manager called to tell me they were entering my apartment as a compensator failed and water had percolated from the 18th floor to all apartments in the same line(s) below.

While the building assumed some expenses, I was required to use my own homeowners insurance to:
1. Remove my furniture from the living room, dining room and foyer as the entire parquet floor (monolithic) required replacement.
2. Then, at my expense, I was required to discard all carpeting and underlayment.
3. Then, after the parquet floor was replaced at co-op expense, I was required to replace the carpeting and underlayment (don't forget the 80% rule).
4. There were some wall stains, so I needed to have part of the wall painted.
5. Finally, I needed to have someone move all the furniture into the living, dining room and foyer.

My tab was about $19,000 of which insurance paid about $11,000. Yes, we bought a better grade carpet.

Ain’t I glad I had insurance?

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If you make the coop additional insured - jack Jun 03, 2007


then you will be notified if the policy is canceled. This is the same as when a shareholder has a contract do your and you get a certificate of insurance with the coop named as additional insured.

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Same coin - two sides - ~AR Jun 01, 2007


I require shareholders to provide proof of insurance, which they are responsible to obtain on their own. My reasoning is that when 2A leaks on 1A due to personal negligence (bathing 3 kids at once), the coop is not responsible for this repair. I can then, without argument from or between the shareholders, inform them that this is a situation for their own insurance companies to work out. Management and the board are free from arbitrating this shareholder - shareholder event. Of course I follow up to ensure an amicable resolve.

Mortgage companies require continued insurance on the investment. Your manager should have a copy on file from the closing; you can have him/her just maintain a spreadsheet, and annually remind shareholders to send the updated proof.

On another note, it is illegal to force renters to purchase insurance. I always "highly recommend it" and assist in pointing them to a broker (we use The Registry – same company used for credit/background checks). The rational is the same as with the shareholder.

All that said, I agree with the other posters, in that the Board should not take on this responsibility (and added possible liability if something goes wrong). Use your manager if you do this, and have it be a management policy, not a Board policy.

Good Luck
~AR

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proof of insurance and compliance - Board Newbie Jun 04, 2007


The Board is about to address the issue of all shareholders needing proof of insurance and we have a concern about a unit that was bought from foreclosure years ago. They might not even have a mortgage that requires insurance as they may have paid cash. They have a rottweiler. We have heard many carriers do not issue policies for households that have certain breeds of dogs. How can we ensure that they get insurance if that is the case? How can we be sure that these shareholders tel the insurance company that they have a rottie? If they don't disclose this fact, and there is ever an incident with the dog, can't the Co-op be held liable for any injuries or claims arising from an incident?
Thanks all.

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Re: proof of insurance and compliance - AR Jun 05, 2007


Those questions are better suited for your insurance broker.

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The incentive is a fine for non compliance (nm) - Jack Jun 03, 2007



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jack - it's not boarding school. be nice. - sally Jun 04, 2007


I resent your kind of thinking - so parental. you better find out the legality of such a requirement first. I am not sure AdC is correct.

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Resent it or not Buildings do requier insurance - Jack Jun 05, 2007


and do fine shareholders that are not compliant. Though to be honest I have not querry counsel about legality and do not know of any shareholder that has tested this.

Jack

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Reply to Sally re: insurance - BP Jun 04, 2007


Sally, I agree with AR. Shs should get their own insurance. The prop mgr can keep a spreadsheet and send Shs an annual reminder at renewal time. Our Shs send our prop mgr a copy of each renewal, at least the page with effective dates so we know it's kept up. Our apt sale package includes a form (to be signed by a buyer applicant and notarized) agreeing to get insurance and send a copy of the policy (or a letter of confirmation from the insurer that it's forthcoming) to our mgmt office within 30 days of apt closing.

As AR said, it's illegal to require renters/subletters to get insurance. Our Shs who rent insure interior elements of their apt (floors, appliances, all fixtures that come with the apt), and they recommend to their renters that they get insurance to cover their personal belongings in case of fire, water damage, etc.

The board should stay out of insurance issues, and as AR said, the prop mgr can advise a Sh if s/he has to deal with another Sh directly to settle a problem and just follow up to make sure it's resolved.

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it's illegal to require renters/subletters to get insurance - AdC Jun 04, 2007


"it's illegal to require renters/subletters to get insurance."

Well, you are not dealing with renters or subletters, but with shareholder or sponsor(s)if more than one, who sublease. Therefore, the shareholder who owns the unit is always responsible for liability insurance.

So, directly, you may not impose on renters, but on the shareholders of the sublease unit!!!

AdC



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is it legal to require shrholdrs to get insurance? - sally Jun 04, 2007


thanks everyone for yoru input.
I am not sure it is legal to require shareholders to maintain insurance - where can we check? i want to be 100% sure of facts. thanks!
despite the fact that you can amend it or put it inthe bylaws - bottom line - is that legal>?
sometimes the board has to get involved if structural elements othte building are involved - like the floor structure and electric between floors and any original components of the building like the original floor. that is all coop responsibility. except if there is a case of neglegence like the upstairs neighbor leaving on a tap - in which case veryone's insuracne co. should be notified inc. the coops.

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Is this legal and what do you need to do? - AdC Jun 04, 2007


You may enact a resolution of the board and demanding liability insurance for $ X value and $X for personal insurance.

Liability insurance is for damages caused to the structure and other shareholders' apartments due to negligence or accidents on the part of the shareholder. Example: You had a water overflow in your toilet tank; your dishwasher hose got dettached from the elbow under your sink, a painter fell in your apartment and had no insurance of his own; you left a window open during a storm and water penetrated your apartment and the one below, you started an accidental fire that ruined a portion of your apartment, your heat vent is defective and water came out and affected the ceiling of the apartment below or your own apartment, you decided to spread a cement slurry to place tiles in the kitchen, but the slurry was too thin and ended up in the apartment below, etc.

So, individual insurance is excellent for shareholders to buy peace of mind if something were to go wrong under their responsibility.

Finally, it has nothing to do with the responsibility of keeping the buidling infrastructure by the co-op, except that shareholders and co-op sometimes want to pass the buck to the other and conflicts ensue.

AdC


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