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OccupancySep 06, 2007


As per PL of our Co-op grown up children can live with the parents (3-bedroom apartment).
The Board informed Management Company to write a letter to the shareholder, who recently purchased an apartment, that they should be living in their new 3-bedroom apartment alone because at the time of interview it was not indicated that the grown up children will be living with them.
However the Management Company has been informed at the time of closing that the children will be living with their parents.

Please HELP!

Thanks in advance.



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Occupancy - AdC Sep 07, 2007


Occupancy is a sticky subject. Children can live with parents regardless of age. I'm sure everyone thinks that the parents were not forthcoming during the interview, but c'la vie! Such actions may say something about people -- not too transparent for one.

Since this was announced after the fact, your admissions committee (1 or 2 members) should run a "meet and greet" session to go over rules and amenities. From thereon, everyone should then smile!

AdC

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Re: Occupancy - V Oct 03, 2007


Shouldn't penalties be levied for non-disclosure, not so much for the children, but for sneaking roommates in without prior knowledge.

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Re: Occupancy - Tom Oct 04, 2007


What you talking about V,"Sneaking roommates?"

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Undocumented Roommates - V Oct 05, 2007


New shareholders not being honest about the people going to live with them and REFUSAL to disclose who they are. In one case I heard the roommates moved in before the shareholder did. She told the board it was just her and her mother. Now there may be one or two additional people living there who are not relatives. We are fighting about it on the board. Half say it's an invasion of privacy, the other half speak of liability. Who's right?

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Re: Undocumented Roommates - MaryN Oct 05, 2007


Dear V
ONE of the most important documents in a co-op is the proprietary lease. That is because the lease is the document that gives shareholders the right to occupy their apartments and sets forth the rules and regulations governing shareholders' rights.
I will answer your question.
In this case it's mother and daughter and some roommates.
How do you know who else LIVES in the apartment. How did you determine the age and number of residents in the apartment? Did you secretly WATCH them? You seem to have a PERSONAL issue or a hidden agenda,for which you have gone as far as INVADING PERSONAL PRIVACY of residents.

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Re: Undocumented Roommates - Harry Oct 05, 2007


Agree with MaryN
The difference between the sidewalk and apartment is that shareholder has the right to exclusive possession of the apartment against the entire world, even the board.

H.

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Roommates - V Oct 06, 2007


But paragraph 14 our PL says that no guest can stay in a shareholder's apartment past thirty days without written consent of the Board and management. Few shareholders are doing this.

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Re: Roommates - Harry Oct 06, 2007


Hello V, GUEST not roommate. Big difference.
Concentrate.
H.

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roommates - elena Oct 06, 2007


How is a Co-op supposed to control the number of people living in the apt? If the proprietary lease has 2 persons and one sees six persons coming in and out of the apt. Shouldn't the coop be concerned that the occupants are illegal subletters? I am all for privacy, but how can a co-op prevent the additional "roommates". Most co-ops provide water, hot water usage that is included in the maintenance, and if many co-operators go this route, wouldn't that be a financial problem? How can a co-op regulate the tenancy without the issue of invading one's privacy? I live in a co-op and I wondered many times how to deal with this. Anyone has an answer?

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> Join the conversation Comments (3)
Re: roommates - MaryN Oct 06, 2007


Dear Elena
Most proprietary leases specify who can reside in a co-op apartment — typically, the shareholder, a spouse, their children, grandchildren, parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters and domestic employees. Although most leases do not specify the number of occupants, some leases impose limits on the number of occupants based on the apartment’s size. So you would have to check the proprietary lease to determine if there are any limits on the number of occupants. New York State’s Multiple Dwelling Law provides that every room must have at least 400 cubic feet of airspace for each adult and 200 cubic feet of airspace for each child occupying that room. Basically it’s 3 adults for 1 bedroom apartment, 5 adults for 2 bedroom apartment, 7 adults for 3 bedroom apartment. My dear Elena, boards are the "keepers of the gate" in their buildings, the ultimate decision-makers about who can live in the community it's a decision and process that carries great weight and responsibility, also boards can open up the co-op to potentially costly lawsuits over discrimination, harassment, invasion of privacy, etc. And if you are a board member please always keep that in mind to avoid REAL
FINANCIAL problems.
M.


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To MaryN and Harry - TOM Oct 07, 2007


I completely agree and thank you both, MaryN and Harry, VERY WELL PUT!
Some Board members are very possessive; they want a recognition and obedience by every shareholder (newcomer). And if and when they are ignored – they start creating stories, spying and making everybody’s life miserable. How about becoming friendly and getting shareholders’ VOTES when they run for the board next time?

It’s a shame that some vindictive and unhappy Board members are given a power to twist RESIDENTS’ life. They are becoming ENTITIES with MULTIPLE PERSONALITIES. They should concentrate on their own life and leave others alone, because, as MaryN wrote: “boards can open up the co-op to potentially costly lawsuits over discrimination, harassment, invasion of privacy, etc. And if you are a board member please always keep that in mind to avoid REAL FINANCIAL problems”.

Thank you all for your input and support.

Tom

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To Tom, Harry and V - MaryN Oct 08, 2007


Dear Friends

As a board director in New York City, can you throw a neighbor out of the building? Can you be held personally liable and bankrupted for your actions as a board director? As board power has grown with board responsibility – the answer has increasingly become “yes.”
If you – or your board – are having difficulties understanding your roles and the scope and limits of your authority, be warned: lack of the necessary skills and confusion over board roles, responsibilities, and powers often lead to bad governance, which, in turn can lead to poor decisions and, possibly, future financial problems. Like every other commodity or person, buildings have reputations. Lawyers, accountants, managing agents, and brokers who work in this industry all know the reputation of a building. If the board is not conducting itself properly, then the building is not being run properly. This information is passed on to prospective buyers. Bad rumors or the bad standing of a building affects the price of its apartments.
Very few actions you may initiate on the board are as consequential but also as necessary as knowing when and how to inform on your fellow board members. Learn how to spot the signs of trouble, avoid common mistakes.
For keeping up to date with key issues, and for accessing important data on your building you can always contact:

Council of New York Cooperatives & Condominiums (CNYC)
250 West 57th Street, Suite 730
New York, N.Y. 10107-0730
212-496-7400

Federation of New York Housing Cooperatives & Condominiums (FNYHC)
61-20 Grand Central Parkway Suite C110 Forest Hills, N.Y. 11375
718-760-7540.

New York Association of Real Estate Managers (NYARM)
500 Eighth Avenue, Suite 1212
New York, N.Y. 10018
212-216-0654


Thank you
Good Luck
M.

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Roommates (to MaryN) - V Oct 06, 2007


Several apartments were burglarized several years ago, one of the culprits claimed to be a roommate of a shareholder. So yes my agenda is preventing that from happening again. Or something worse.

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> Join the conversation Comments (2)
To V - MaryN Oct 07, 2007


Dear V.
The co-op building in which I live has a digital camera security system. The system films and records all common areas of the building, including the elevator, garages, hallways and laundry room. Why don't you offer the board to purchase the security system to prevent burglary or "something worse".
P.S. Yes you are right V, paragraph 14 our PL says that no guest can stay in a shareholder's apartment past thirty days without written consent of the Board and management, GUESTS, but not the roommates. You really seem to have a PERSONAL issue other then "burglary". I no longer have a desire to continue this discussion. You obviously lack the knowledge and expertise that pertains to this topic.
Thank you
M.

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to MaryN - V Oct 08, 2007


All I did was ask a question and I got my answer. Thank you very much. No further comment is needed on my part either!

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Occupancy - MaryN Sep 07, 2007


The proprietary lease usually provides that the shareholder and members of the shareholder’s family may occupy an apartment, and Section 235-f of the Real Property Law (the so-called “roommate law”) provides that every residential lease entered into by one tenant “shall be construed to permit occupancy by the tenant, immediate family of the tenant, one additional occupant, and dependent children of the occupant…” This law has been held to be applicable to co-op proprietary leases. Therefore the co-op board may not prohibit questioner No. 39 from having a roommate.
So if the grown up child moved into the unit occupied by the parents and lives there with the parents, that would typically fall within the list of permitted occupants and would not require board consent or provide justification for a surcharge.



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> Join the conversation Comments (1)
Occupancy - Tom Sep 10, 2007


Thank you

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Re: Occupancy - Mike Mac Oct 02, 2007


Why would someone buy a three bedroom apartment and live there by themselves? Didn't the board see this coming?

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Occupancy - V Oct 03, 2007


Why didn't the managing agent inform the board that the grown adult children will be living with the shareholder? Don't they work FOR you?

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