I worked with El Tech numerous times and I think they're excellent. I managed a 6 story building on the Upper West Side where the elevator was 50 years old and they maintained it and when it came time to modernize it, they won the bid and came in a week ahead of schedule. They're back-office is very good and easy to deal with as well.

our original sponsor is still the managing agent, i always wondered how common this is.
27 year conversion here.
i see it as a no lose gravy train for the sponsor/managing company
if they still have a lot of units for the first 10/20 years after conversion, they don't do the required maintainance, because they want their cost kept down. By the time the problem is evident, the sponsor doesn't own anything, and are just collecting managing fee's, and now they are dealing with big $$ projects which can be padded very easily. The owners are tagged with assessments.
our roof had to be encapsulated doors replaced, a lot of work that would have been avoided with normal maintenance. Now it is a big job, since no agent did roof inspections in 27 years

you gotta switch agents asap!!

Two words: Jennifer Realty. Google it.

Hello David,
You are part of the solution not the problem so hang-in there. Here are some suggestions:
1) Get a lawyer
2) Make sure you have personal liability insurance.
3) You may need to set-up a shadow Board.
4) You have got to find the leverage to unhinge them. I would suggest finding a way to alter the flow of funds.
Just some thoughts...

Consult the corp attorny, call the Attorny General's office and inquiry about your rights. But be prepared for push back.

My engineers charge about 250/195 and typically would provide a flate rate quote on the report and only the construction project would incur the hourly rate.

Best
~AR

Some co-ops do not permit write-in candidates. Our co-op closes nominations 30 days prior to the annual meeting. Their names, e.g.: incumbents and new candidates, are then posted for all to see. By rule definition, there are no nominations from the floor. Likewise, there are no write-ins permitted on the proxy.

Assume there are six positions open for election and there are nine candidates.

If a shareholder has 400 shares, the shareholder may vote hls/her shares for one to six candidates. In this case, based on the forgoing, the shareholder may vote for just one candidate, two candidates, three candidates, four candidates, five candidates or six candidates, or none.

By placing an [X] on the ballot adjacent to a candidate, the counters will take the 400 shares and add the shares so voted to the candidate identified and so forth.

One may not vote 600 for one candidate and 200 for another. The “amount” of shares voted is based on the shares held by the owner(s) of the unit.

If one votes for more than six, the ballot is invalidated.

If one votes for none the candidates, the 400 counts as part of the quorum requirement, but not the election.

So when all the votes/shares are tabulated, the counters list those that garnered votes in descending order, such that the top six vote/share recipients are the winners.

If one desires, one may give instructions to a proxy to submit the ballot on behalf of the shareholder. In our case, individuals can be identified by one or more shareholders as their proxy.

The shareholder may give explicit directions to the proxy as to the shares to be cast and the candidates or the shareholders can allow the proxy complete freedom.

In our co-op, the shareholder or the proxy can submit the ballot in advance of the annual meeting or at the annual meeting until voting is closed.

i seem to follow what you're saying, but thanks for the response
with the example where 600 and 200 could not be voted is that because you only have 600 shares=600 votes, not 800..

ok let say i was in your building and i had 600 shares. there are 6 positions open and 9 people running.
could i vote all 600 for one candidate, nothing for the other 5 ? or could i vote 100 for one each of the 6 candidate which = my total of 600.
could i vote 300 and 300 for two candidates to equal my 600 shares/votes?
if i had 400 shares and if the proxy is filled with an X next to 4 candidates slots listed on the proxy, running unopposed is that invalid, or if they had 400 shares, each candidate would get 100 votes for a total of their 400 shares.
the same with ballot voting in you have 400 shares and put a X next to each of the 4 candidates you wanted, each would be counted as 100 votes,

If you have 600 shares, you may only vote the 600 shares in their entirety for one or more candidates up to the limit of open positions.

Or, you may also elect to vote for no one.

In the tabulations, if you vote for five open slots, your 600 shares are voted and added for each.

If you are the only one who votes, each of the five, for whom you voted, will each have 600 votes. One share = one vote, but a shareholder, per most rules, cannot allocate more or less than the total 600 shares owned to each candidate.

As different units have different share counts, typically, others can vote their total number of shares according to their preference of conscience.

Each candidate is independent of any other candidate regardless of slate or affiliation.

i still am ahving a hard time gripping this , since it seems to have been changed in our building in the last couple years, and i know we didn't any special meeting to change the bylaws.
one of the pluses of cumulative voting was to get in a minority candidate, the way this is sounding , that doesn't seem possible.
4 positions for relection, lets stick to the 600 shares on this one. we have always been able to decide to run the night of the meeting.
so if a write in decided to run, and a good percentage of the shareholders, voted for the write in as one of the slots, 600 shares for the write in, it sounds like they would still have to vote for 3 more people , giving each of them 600 shares. so the shareholder with 600 shares would vote their 600 for 4 candidates, but since a write in has been added and 4 are running unopposed for reelection, for 4 slots, would the write in have a chance ? seems the write in would have a better chance if the shareholders only voted for that one person, thereby not giving any votes to the people you do not want,.
i know in 1998 the bcl was changed for co-ops to vote standardized voting, however i didn't think that would affect or take precedence over a co-op formed in 1983, whose by-laws state, one vote per share whereas you would have 600 votes, not 2400.
isn't that standardized voting?
i know there are 2 types of voting, one cumulative , which is better to get a new person in, and i think the other is called standardized, which is after 1998.
i am trying to make sure i understand the difference between cumulative and standardized, since i believe we should be voting cumulative.

There was three types of voting methods:

1- Straight or Direct vote:
One shareholder one vote ( one point per seat )
Hasn't been used much.

2- Standardized vote:
The Shareholder's vote for a candidate will give the number of shares owned to that candidate. You own 200 shares, you vote for candidate A and C, A gets a 200 "points" and C gets a 200 "points"

3- Cumulative vote:
The shareholder multiplies his shares by the number of seats in the board. Let's say that a board has seven seats.
The shareholder has 7x200=1400 "points" that he can assign the way he wants to the candidates he picked. 900 to candidate A and 500 to candidate C.
This method was designed to allow a "minority" shareholders to vote in a candidate to represent them.

i remember the word cumulative and straight being used to describe the voting for years. i never really grasped how it worked,but i do remember voting unequal number of shares for candidates, but it was 400 split , not 1600, i never voted by by proxy.
the last couple of years it seems to have switched , as in my first post, no splitting , must vote for the number of slots running. voting all your shares for each candidate.

however the by laws which i checked the night i wrote the OP, state one share = 1 vote, didn't see anything mentioned in there about cumulative or standardized, i need to go back and see if the terms straight or direct or on that paragraph.
i did see that the by-laws state One share equals one vote, that sounds like straight, building was converted in 1983, Westchester.
with straight voting can you split your shares, if you had 400 shares and 4 positions were open, vote all 400 for 1 candidate, or 200 and 200, and skip the other 2 candidates, or 100 for each. i remember doing that , i am also trying to think back over 20 years. which hurts/
i have a lot to look up by tomorrow night, i believe it could not have been changed unless there was a special meeting, with the same notice as a annual meeting for that exact purpose, which i know never happened.

To "escape from yonkers" - If, let's say, you have 400 shares:

With straight voting -- You can vote 400 shares for each board position. For ex, if your board has 5 positions, you can vote 400 shares for each of 5 candidates. But if you wish, you can vote 400 shares for just, say, 2 or 3 candidates if there are only 2 or 3 that you like and want to vote for. But each candidate you vote for (whether it's 2 or 5) each gets your full 400 shares.

With cumulative voting -- you have a grand total of 400 shares and you can give any part of them you want to however many candidates you want. For ex, you can give 200 shares to John, 100 shares to Mary, 50 shares to Phil, 25 shares to Cathy, and 25 shares to Frank. Or - you can give 200 shares to John and 200 shares to Mary. Or - you can give all 400 shares to John and none to anyone else.

There's another method of voting whereby 1 apartment = 1 vote (for each candidate), but that's not a common method in most coops.

Hope this clarifies the types of voting for you.

bp, thank you. That explains it the way i previous understood it for cumulative, which is the only voting i thought we had for 20 plus years

our by laws state
"at each meeting of shareholders present in person or by proxy shall be entitled to one vote for each share registered in his name at time of service of notice of such meeting"

i understand this to mean if i have 400 shares, i have 400 votes. i understand this to be cumulative.

the proxy notice we received sounds like straight voting,and they neglected to point out that you can also, only vote for one candidate out of 4 candidates. It sounds like you must vote for all 4 positions I am not sure if in this straight voting ,if a group of shareholders only votes for one 1 out of 4 candidates, lets say a last-minute write in,if it would help the write in candidate.
to clarify and not confuse the issue : this election has 4 seats open for reelection, election, with the 4 seeking re-election.
the board has, i believe 7 positions, and another problem i will address in another post, the officers are no longer listed in any material we receive, just the president, the others no longer have officer titles listed, whereas they always had titles listed in all material sent to shareholders.
secretary,treasury,

"each shareholder present in person or by proxy is entitled to vote each share registered in his or her name. The total number of shares per apartment may be voted for each candidate selected , but no more than four (4) candidates may be voted for. You may not divide your shares or accumulate your shares.

how about a voice vote/raising of hands to support, with no call for "nay" votes?

doesn't sound quite kosher, ya know... ?

What you discribe is NON-cumulative voting. We changed over a few years ago, and we were finally able to get a Board member off the Board who, with Cumulative voiting could count the percentages, and figure out exackly what he needed to get on the Board,and if he had any left over, he could bring his pals on.

Its very difficult to manipulate the votes with Non-cumulative voting. And the most popular (didnt say best) people are elected.

However, you may want to check the BYlaws, this may require a Shareholder vote. But, do stay with NON-cumulative.
VP

Our building recently had the somewhat of the same problem. You must look into your Certificate of Incorporation, that is the motherload of all including BCL and Bylaws. The Certificate should state how the voting process should be, if it is silent and does not specify then it is automatically Plaurality superseeds Cumulative, the one that holds the most votes get on board,the second to most also prevails et...il all members are chosen.

All board members should be in compliance with ALL House rules, By-Laws, and Prop. Lease without having to make policy. These are the people that are looked upon as examples in the community and what good is it to have a BM who shuns the rules? What's good for the goose....

We were offered $12K for Verizon to run their wiring and to promote the product within the building, including door-to-door soliciting.
When I asked, the sales rep stated that the door-to-door could be eliminated, of course for a lower incentive offering.

Thanks for the info. We are negotiating with Verizon now and they are insisting they won't pay the $150/unit because we only have 20 units. Has anyone got money from them with under 25 units?
Thanks,
Janie

Our building had FIOS and Cablevision wiring and any fees apparently went to the management company. Shouldn't they have gone to the building fund?

that a very bad sign. get a new managing co. seriously. also demand in writing they give you the money. before you fire them.

We received over $30,000 or about $75 per unit, whether they subscribed or not.

How does Fios actually work? I know people that have it and have had difficult times with it and are going back to Cable. In fact someone I know over the weekend had a problem and couldn't get into their computer or the TV. He was discontinuing it and going back to cable. Just wondering?

Was this an automatic payment or did you negotiate?

Most of the negotiation centered around building access, the work that they would perform, and the materials that they would use, which was actually of greater importance to us. As I recall, the payment was part of their offer which we accepted. The good news is that they paid us for every apartment, regardless of whether or not the resident subscribed to the service and was paid in one lump sum rather than over a period of time.

So the $75 per unit was automatic?

Yes. My point was that there was not much negotiating on the payment - that's what they offered as part of the package and we accepted.

Did Direct TV offer a bonus to install their equipment in building

Our building paid Direct TV to install their equipment

oops

Again, did anyone pay or get a bonus from Direct TV to have their satellite installed?

FiOS will pay and it is a good idea to get them. We have a 150 unit co-op. We negotiated $150 a unit to have them pre-wire, so we got $22,500 to have them pre-wire. Plus they paid for our website and our back-end management software. We now have a web-based work order queue to manage our work orders. People can submit work orders online, from their iPhone, Blackberry, Doid and FiOS TV. The super gets it on his phone right away and it goes in the online queue. The super then can work the work order and put any detailed needed in it, in case we need to revisit the issue.

It is worth getting them, but make sure you negotiate for a few things.

What Blog post are you referring to?

http://www.habitatmag.com/activities/blog/lying_dogs_the_owners_that_is

i couldn't log in correctly when i wrote this,
but it was from me.
escapefromyonkers

http://www.stroock.com/SiteFiles/Pub307.pdf
The children can NOT live in the apartment without the shareholder present. Not just having some things in the apartment to "appear" as if the shareholder is living there either. The Doormen (if there is one present) should keep a log of all visitors coming and going for "security" purposes.

thank you very much. I have been trying to find some written case laws on this issue. Without any case laws or landmark cases, i was deemed, talking out the @##.
Real time web sites such as Habitat are so much more productive for finding info. I will be paying for a subscription soon, since i would like to research some items, and i am sure they have been discussed before.
stil the problem remains what can shareholders do to stop this practice by the board, Two or more of the board members are involved in this also.

Make a copy of the article sited. Have copies made and either send them to everyone in the building in the mail. Let it fester for a few days and then point out to a few of the other shareholders what is going on. Ask them to write a leter to the Management about the situation and include that Management should do their job and correct the situation. "Maybe we need a new Management Company"!!!!

the children living in apartments without the shareholders was brought up. The managing agent who was acting as secretary at the meeting said it was perfectly ok. i stated that par 14, stated " and "not or etc, He tried to bs me, by stating that our proprietary lease said both and/ or, i told him no it didn't, since i had copy with me. Then he said that the laws still uphold the children living there. i explained that the recent court decisions, did not. i had the article printed out, he didn't want a copy, but the board president asked if he could have it, so i got my point across.
i will make more copies and put them under the other owner occupied doors, i was low on printer ink so i only had a couple of copies to hand out, but that was golden.
i am an ex union steward, so i am used to reading the contract almost daily, looking things up, and knowing where the info is, and studying the outcome of cases won or lost by arbitration is the only way to operate.

Make sure the Annual minutes reflect what the Managing agent said. The CEO of the Management company should be sent a copy of both and asked for comment... in writing.

i really have no experience in this, but probably nothing can be done. i could see wall to wall carpeting being as a health issue for many people. the chemicals used in manufacture of wall to wall can be quite different than the area rugs. in out building 80% is the number. plenty of area rugs that can be made of non allergic/ toxic material are available.
wall to wall and the padding has a lot of checmicals that release toxins, nothing you would want your baby on. we didn't know yers ago, same as abstetos, as we learn we change out behaviour. Except for the smokers, they are too addicted.
sounds like noise is the real problem, and maybe the house rules should be upgraded to this century.
there are plenty of non allergic/ non toxic floor materials that reduce noise.

There are many carpets that are hypo allergenic including padding these days. Wall to Wall can be fine if you use those types of floor covering, I have that in my apartment, you can use Berber and there are many others that are hypo allergenic or even commercial/industrial which is hypo allergenic. Things have changed since many, many years ago.

There a many companies know that sell non toxic wall to wall
just go on line and u will find the companies that supply them. Throw rug are not a sound barrier.

area rugs with padding can be just as effective sound barrier as wall to wall. For example a 12 by 15 room with an 8 by 10 area rug in the middle
The quality of padding is important.
There are free-floating laminate flooring made from cork. Plus there are also specific noise reduction padding for these laminate floors.
They are probably more expensive than wall to wall, but probably much better at sound reduction.

While that is true, the perimeter of the area rug is wood and will still cause much noise. I know about the laminate flooring, correct, it will cost more, so for expense purposes decent noise reduction padding should help other residents.

That is very true. Thank you for the non toxic issue. That is what I was trying to say, Hypo Allergenic. Area Rugs are not a sound barrier by any means.

I agree with you, there is also an issue in all Leases, whether they be a rental, co-op, condo, including Commercial Leases that affords everyone Quiet Enjoyment. No one shall impede on anothers Quiet Enjoyment, that's a problem with living in a Bldg. I have been in Bldgs where people did not get along and noise was imposed for "just because". That is one very important reason that the Ordinance of a Carpeting Rule was effectuated. An area rug is Not a Sound Barrier, so sometimes one must go further to avoid a situation. There are non-toxic carpets, they have come a long way for people who are sensitive, have allergies. People have been living with carpeting for years, many years and more homes than not have it.

Why not simply sit down with the new Shareholders and see what can be worked out?

If they will be using hardwood floors only, for example, and there are health issues associated with w2w carpeting, you could point out that studies have shown a tremendous amount of pollution is tracked into the home on shoes - perhaps they could live in a socks-only home? That would certainly cut down on any noise from that area...

It is my strong feeling that boards and shareholders need MORE, not less, communication - and a good place to start is by talking with new shareholders about House Rules and why they were formulated.

Puzzled - I'm just curious. Why does your coop require wall-to-wall carpeting? Most House Rules state that 75% (or 80%) of floors must be covered with "carpeting, rugs or equally effective noise-reducing material." That typically means in the living area rooms and excludes hallways, the kitchen and the bath.

Do all your residents have wall-to-wall carpeting? That seems a lot to ask, and it can be expensive. Just wondering why you require this. Thanks.

Most buildings have an 80% rule and it states at LEAST 80% as long as there is no disturbance to another unit. It also states NOISE REDUCING Material. Just an area rug, and many are quite thin (padding controls some of that), does not reduce noise if there is much noise from another unit and carrying over to others. That is why NY does have that rule, living in apartments is difficult when you are surrounded by many others, it isn't fair to other surrounding, above or especially below. Noise, such as barking dogs, etc. does become a nuisance and infringes on others. Hopefully we all try to reduce noise in our apartments and consider others.

While it is true that you do not have the right to approve or disapprove, and regardless of if they are buying a sponsor unit or not, they will sign a Proprietary Lease, and subsequently must comply with it. and it's subsidiary documents (Bylaws and House Rules, etc). Only exceptions are if the Offering Plan specifically states that they are exempt from this rule.

I have a Shareholder in one of my buildings that had the same "health issues" with carpeting due to allergens, off gassing and a number of other things, but we did work together and find a non allergenic, all natural carpet that she was happy with.

Good luck!

~AR