Hi, we give this application out at each closing so that new purchasers can get on it right as they close. Link to download here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xb2c7mq6790z18/Abatement%20Application%202015.pdf?dl=0.

If that link expires, email me at mblevine@ebmg.com and I will send you the PDF form.

Thanks for the link, I do have the 2016-2017 version of the form already, which is what you posted, and I will file it on time. But my concern if for the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 benefits. Any idea if she get the benefit retroactively or is she out of luck? It will be a loss of 2 months maintenance, almost $2000.

The management company did report the change in ownership back in 2013. Thanks again for the responses.

On other factor to consider. Regardless of the reason for an assessment, be it construction, repairs, abatement recoupment, etc, every assessment must be the same amount per share for every outstanding share. There cannot be different "classes" of shares, which in this case would be those held by shareholders who received the abatement and those held by shareholders who didn't. It may not be fair in the case of your mother, but there is nothing the board or managing agent can do.

If the mgmt. co reported the change in ownership and your Mom returned the form, it sounds like she should have received the abatement. She should contact the NYC Dept of Finance and provide a copy of the residency verification form submitted if available. Also, have the mgmt. co check the benefits reports for those years to see if the unit was flagged with a "P", that is, this unit is being 'phased out'. Lastly, did your Mom own other property before she moved it?

Thanks for your response. please see my update above. Any insights?

Yes, she sold a condo in Florida around the same time. If it was being phased out, and something went wrong with the primary residence verification, she still would've gotten something right?

Thanks.

How sure are you that the management company reported the change in ownership *and* primary residence status (they're *both* on this form - http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/finance/downloads/pdf/coop_condo_abatement/coop_benefit_change_form.xlsx) ? You earlier mentioned that they "say they did" (which is no doubt the case), but is there any actual evidence?

I'd have thought that if they actually did, then either you'd have the abatement, or as is mentioned in the timely NYT article you linked to, you'd have received some correspondence about it ("the city began flagging residents with questionable status and sending them letters asking them to prove residency."). In the absence of either of those things happening, I think it's worth digging into this more and establishing whether management neglected to inform the City (on time), or whether the city really was informed, but ignored it.

In my case, I've got a pretty good idea which of these two things happened, and I could talk specifics (it would be particularly interested to know if, by any chance, the same management company is involved) by email (kovanroad@gmail.com), and hopefully if it turns out the same thing happened in your case we can work out how best to handle it.

NYC and NYS offer several different tax credits and abatements for COOP's. My understanding is that the COOP's management company is responsible for reporting changes in ownership of the COOP units each Dec/Jan. The STAR, Senior, Veterans exemptions need to be filed for by the new unit owner directly with the City. The link provided by another responder is valid, and forms are also available on the NYC.GOV website. My COOP, as a courtesy, advises all buyers in their purchase approval letter that it is their responsibility to file for these exemptions/credits and we usually post a reminder notice on the bulletin boards prior to the March filing deadline.

Hi there,

Thanks for sharing this experience. I'm in a very similar situation to your mother - I closed on a coop in 2014, filled out everything given to me at closing. The previous resident was a tenant, and not an owner. Early in 2015, management mailed me with a primary residence affidavit to fill out and have notarized, which I promptly returned to them.

I was assessed in May because they didn't get the abatement from DOF for my apartment. It's not at all clear to me whether they submitted everything to DOF and there's a problem at DOF (in which case I'd expect management to do whatever they need to make that happen, rather than seemingly waiting indefinitely to resolve itself), or whether they lost my forms internally and didn't submit to DOF (which would explain the lack of abatement), and they haven't been able to confirm this either way.

I've been politely reminding management for the last six months to resolve this (i.e., refund my assessment), they say they're waiting on DOF. At this point, I'm interested in any pragmatic advise for progressing this - it seems worth stepping things up before the end of the year? Alternatively, I could leave it until the annual meeting?

For the original poster, do let me know if you're interested in researching and sharing strategies on this, possibly consulting an attorney, etc. I'm keen to resolve this rather than let it go, both because I don't see why I should be out of pocket for someone else's oversight (be it at management, or DOF), and also because I see this as possibly indicative of more general management inattention that isn't in my interests to leave unaddressed.

From what I now know, there are several things that need to happen:

1 - tenant has to file a TAX BENEFITS APPLICATION FOR HOMEOWNERS. I believe this has to be done only once, by March of the first year for which you are eligible. I, as a resident of the same co-op, definitely do NOT file it every year, though each year a new version of the form comes out. I must’ve filed it way back when but I do not remember. I do not think my mom ever received, nor filed, this form.

2 - Tenant has to file a Coop/condo Tax Abatement Primary Residence Verification form, which arrived in the mail. My mom filed this.

3 - Managing agent has to report the change in ownership, which they say they did.

The questions:
1 - If step # 1 was never done, do step2 #2 and #3 have no effect at all?

2 - if the managing agent did not provide the Tax Benefits application at closing, is my mom out of luck? Do they have to provide it, or is it a courtesy?

3 - Can the benefit be obtained retroactively?

PhilC - sure, would like to strategize. But if you filed the form in step1, you are probably going to be OK. My managing agent has also told me, and a 311 case I opened yielded the same response, that the DOF made mistakes in their report and rejected people they should not have. They originally said they’d send an update in September, then October, etc, and now they’re saying January. My plan is to file the 2016-2017 version of the Tax Benefits Application before March, just in case, and then see if the corrected report from DOF solves the problem. I recommend you do the same unless you’re sure you filed last year’s version of the form.

PS - if you want to talk to DOF, file a 311 report. they have an email but rarely answer it and when they do all you get are generic responses.

Hi,

I think I received and returned #2, with a slightly different wording on the file (could be management / building specific).

It's not really clear to me whether #1 and #3 *both* have to happen - after all, this form http://www1.nyc.gov/assets/finance/downloads/pdf/coop_condo_abatement/coop_benefit_change_form.xlsx seems to be for the management to update DOF with the details. I seem to recall reading wording on nyc.gov in the past saying to tell the management company, and not DOF directly, although I can't find that any more. One would think that if both are required and only one happened, then DOF and/or mgmt would pick up on the discrepancy and resolve it one way or the other.

In my correspondence with management, they do mainly acknowledge that they handle this, and submitted a few change forms, although it's by no means clear that things were submitted on time.

There's currently a cryptic note at http://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/benefits/landlords-coop-condo.page with a link to a PDF of "Cooperative Property Tax Abatement Change Forms
Pending Processing as of October 19, 2015", but I don't know of any way of decoding the numbers listed.

Perhaps email me kovanroad@gmail.com and we could look at specifics more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/realestate/plumbing-tax-and-smoke-detector-questions-answered.html

This article quotes Stuart M. Saft, a Manhattan real estate lawyer, as saying that "the city’s Office of the Taxpayer Advocate for help. The advocate might also be able to help you recoup your lost abatement"

i never received tax abatement questionnaire by the management by mail or at closing when i bought my coop in 2017 and i didn't get my tax abatement in august this year - 2019 i got tax assessment i my bill and its costing me over $700
Does anyone know how to solve this?

i had a similar situation. moved into apartment in august (purchased). next january i received abatements and abatements were assessed. no issue. january after that, i DID NOT receive abatements and abatements were assessed. cost me lots of money.

management company claimed they give forms at closing. they did not. no recourse available.

our board now mentioned possibility of abatements at board interviews.

also once a year we go thru those who don't get abatements and have management company send thru all forms (or a link to all forms). from there it's the shareholder responsibility - but at least they have all the info.

The laws are somewhat vague.
First, the credits are attached to the unit/shares, even if the unit is sold.
Second, depending on when the unit is sold, a shareholder can request that those credits be applied to his account. (i.e Mr Smith sells and closes his unit late May 2015 - Mr Smith should be able to request that the credits be applied on closing day since the credits must be applied not later than June by law)

I suppose you could try www.nyc.gov/acris, which is the NYC property document website. Underlying mortgages are recorded here as well as deeds and some other documents. It won't tell you the current balance, but it can be computed based on the original mortgage amount, interest rate and repayment period.

I guess also going to streeteasy etc and looking up percent of maint being deductible is another good way for similar buildings. .

It is underlying mortgage plus taxes but still a building with a very little mortgage would have very little percent taxable.

Property taxes are hitting coops hard, 42% of last years expenses went to taxes, 8% to mortgage interest, 25% to mortgage principal. I don't know how streeteasy gets their numbers, there is no info on their site for my building.

Henlpp - can you provide more information about why a comparison of mortgage debt is important to you? Each building has its own financial character. Some may have 10 year interest-only mortgages while others may have 30 year self-amortizing mortgages. Some mortgages may have been in effect for 20 years and others may be new refinances.

What is it that you are trying to determine or figure out?

If I were buying an apartment for the long term, I would like to see minimal increases in the maintenance from year to year and a possible reduction when the mortgage is paid off. As I indicated in another response, my coop is paying 33% of the budget, about $300k, in mortgage principal and interest per year, my share is almost $4000, which is covered by my maintenance. Underlying mortgage was refinanced, on track to be paid off in 2020. At that point, I could have a $325 per month (from $850) cut in maintenance without diminishing building services. One of my children was looking at purchasing in another building, they have 20 years to go on a 30 year self amortizing mortgage at 8% interest with a $5 million dollar mortgage. They should definitely look into refinancing while rates are still low, they would save lots of $$ over the next 20 years.

JG - What kind of mortgage does your building have, self-amortizing or interest only? If its the self-amortizing kind that will be paid off in 4 years, then you are very lucky indeed!

As for the building your child is looking to buy into with the 8% self-amortizing, unfortunately refinancing is probably not an option. As I recently found out, commercial self-amortizing mortgages are very different from private self-amortizing in that they carry egregious pre-payment penalties which make refinancing virtually impossible except during the last few year.

We originally had a 5 year interest only mortgage. We did a refi with National COOP BANK (NCB) for a 20 year amortization schedule but for a 15 year term, leaving a balloon at the end. We did another refi when rates were low, which incurred a prepayment penalty, plus we added more $$ for needed improvements, which was rolled into a new 10 year fully amortized mortgage for the same monthly payments as before due to the reduced interest rates. Payoff is Dec 2020. In my child's situation, I never progressed to get to speak to a board rep. or get all the details on the underlying mortgage.

I'm jealous! :-) Congratulations on your Co-op's good fiscal management.

I'm assuming that you are the sole name on the lease and shares for your cooperative apartment. If so, you should politely but firmly stand your ground. Do not consent to a background check or any related fees. The only money you should have to pay is a move-in fee, if your fiancé is moving in furniture or similar goods. Send a certified letter (return receipt requested) to the managing agent with a cc: to the board president. It should say something along these lines:

"I was very surprised to receive your request for a background check on my fiancé. I was also taken aback by the implication that board approval is required for him to move in. To be absolutely clear, my fiancé is not applying to have his name added to the proprietary lease. He will be moving in under the terms of NY Real Property Law Section 235-f (the "Roommate Law"). This requires only that "The tenant shall inform the landlord of the name of any occupant within thirty days following the commencement of occupancy by such person or within thirty days following a request by the landlord." With this letter, I am complying with that requirement by letting you know that his name is Joe Fiancé. I understand that this may be a simple misunderstanding on your part, but I must insist that you make no further demands for background checks (and associated fees), and that you refrain from further claims that board approval is required for this move-in. Naturally we will pay the standard move-in fee charged to anyone moving into the building, but we will not provide any additional fees or paperwork, as those are clearly barred by the Roommate Law. Please consult your attorney if you have any questions."

To stress: I am not a lawyer and this is not intended as legal advice. It's simply the letter I'd send myself if I were in this situation.

Thank you so much for your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated.

When you say "you are in a coop". What does that mean? Do you own the coop or rent the coop?

If you own yes you are protected under the "roommate law". However, as a board member that means you are "splitting" the "rent" and costs with your "roommate"

A finance is an imaginary term. There is no legal rights. Sometimes boards are worry you are going to run a rooming house or the AKA "roommate" is not a roommate at all. But a sublease at a mark-up.

It is a fine line. We had a women in my building who had a "roommate"., but it turns out she had the ad still up for more "roomates". She claimed it was going to be one but our lawyer made her take down her ads to prove it.

Additionally, she has no mortgage. Maint is low in my building. She was bragging that the "roommate" was going to cover all her costs and she was living free.

In the end we let her keep one roommate, sign and agreement she would keep it to one. We also let her slide on her living free.

Personally I owned a coop and two weeks before my wedding date my finance moved in. But I knew a girl on the board, she chatted with me and knew I was engaged and she knew my wedding date so I felt no obligation to tell the board anything. A wife is not a sublease.

Now as a board member I would not want to know at all what you are doing. But if you sent me an application. I guess unless this is a real engagement. I mean ring on finger and you are giving me a wedding date. I guess I want to know more details. I would rather not know nothing at all.

And remember he is a "second class citizen" in your building. Cant vote at a board meeting or even attend a board meeting. And causes a second set of issues to board, Unmarried room-mates who date are usually trouble for landlord. If they break up, call off engagement it brings whole building and board into your personal life

When you say "you are in a coop". What does that mean? Do you own the coop or rent the coop?

If you own yes you are protected under the "roommate law". However, as a board member that means you are "splitting" the "rent" and costs with your "roommate"

A finance is an imaginary term. There is no legal rights. Sometimes boards are worry you are going to run a rooming house or the AKA "roommate" is not a roommate at all. But a sublease at a mark-up.

It is a fine line. We had a women in my building who had a "roommate"., but it turns out she had the ad still up for more "roomates". She claimed it was going to be one but our lawyer made her take down her ads to prove it.

Additionally, she has no mortgage. Maint is low in my building. She was bragging that the "roommate" was going to cover all her costs and she was living free.

In the end we let her keep one roommate, sign and agreement she would keep it to one. We also let her slide on her living free.

Personally I owned a coop and two weeks before my wedding date my finance moved in. But I knew a girl on the board, she chatted with me and knew I was engaged and she knew my wedding date so I felt no obligation to tell the board anything. A wife is not a sublease.

Now as a board member I would not want to know at all what you are doing. But if you sent me an application. I guess unless this is a real engagement. I mean ring on finger and you are giving me a wedding date. I guess I want to know more details. I would rather not know nothing at all.

And remember he is a "second class citizen" in your building. Cant vote at a board meeting or even attend a board meeting. And causes a second set of issues to board, Unmarried room-mates who date are usually trouble for landlord. If they break up, call off engagement it brings whole building and board into your personal life

My advice to you is to gather up all of the documents you have regarding your practice space and consult with an attorney. You need to talk with someone who can interpret the contents of your agreements with the co-op to determine what you and the co-op can and cannot do.

Good luck!

My advice to you is to gather up all of the documents you have regarding your practice space and consult with an attorney. You need to talk with someone who can interpret the contents of your agreements with the co-op to determine what you and the co-op can and cannot do.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply to my inquiry. I was hoping to get another response rather than to have to contact an attorney. Before i contact someone, do you or anyone would know of any similar case(s) that i could look at.

You could start by sending a letter, on behalf of XXX many people, to the HOA and legal counsel (that are planning to drop the class aciton) advising them that homeowners are being asked to appear at a public hearing (to which I presume you all want to go), however, none of you have the benefit of all details. Can they provide details by DATE? (and allowing yourself time to review anything they may send). The HOA and/or legal should respond to you.

That's an interesting question and one that you should be consulting with your legal on.
Personally, I don't believe you are required to indemnify the purchaser. In other words if you have disclosed the violations to the purchaser, then they are making the purchase fully aware of the violations. However, you may lose the sale because of it.

On the other hand, it you did indemnify the purchaser, FOR THESE VIOLATIONS ONLY then you better make sure you address them and get them fixed. You can't indemnify them for every violation that may occur in the future; but you could for the ones open.

Again, I think you should consult with legal so that you know your options and impact.

I actually wrote a blog post on this a few days ago and just saw this question here now, if you want to check it out:

http://ebmg.com/2015/10/indemnification-and-hold-harmless-letters-why-banks-should-be-named-and-not-the-shareholder-unit-owner/

Can a condo board demand signed letters of indemnity from a unit owners and the person they hire to do work on their unit

Is he a union member? if so, be sure of your rights by checking the latest agreement.

You said corporate space, indicating the you know the space does not belong to the super. We had similar situation, staff was sent a letter with designated removal by date and if items not removed they would be disposed of. After some push back and extending date, items were removed and locations which were being used by the porters locked. Super does not own the location where he is employed. Be firm and execute.

Hi Andy - Sorry to hear abut your predicament. My first bit of advice is that you realize any sort of legal opinions or advice you receive in these forums is worth exactly what you pay for it. :-)

That being said, the first step I would take would be to find an attorney who specialized in these kinds of construction and noise issues. From the way you describe the situation, and especially since the HVAC unit belongs to a different building, you will not have any practical recourse other than through legal negotiation which hopefully will not morph into litigation. I doubt the HVAC unit owner will voluntarily remove it simply because you request them to, no matter how strongly you feel the noise and construction regulations are on your side. You need to know if you have a legitimate cause of action against the HVAC owner, and only attorney can tell you that.

Good luck!
--- Steve